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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 03-29-2016, 07:22 AM
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Z, when your SS job is dry and you're ready to get rid of the drip or sag that can be expected, then you'll see the light. There was a time when people thought it was nonsense to use engines rather than horses and the argument was that engines were too expensive and complex. Nevertheless, people learned how drive instead of ride. There's a reason single stage is rarely mentioned in modern painting instruction. It is less good than what is currently normal.

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 03-29-2016, 07:34 AM
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there is no difference in urethane clear and urethane color. as mike said unless it is a metallic it will shoot and perform the same . i never clear black or any solid color with very few exceptions.
if there is a problem using bb/cc then your stacking base on top of clear and reclearing which ends up problematic because of excessive mill thickness. with a solid ss you can block and add 2 coats and be done.
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Old 03-29-2016, 07:40 AM
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Shine, thanks for helping make my point. Clear coat defects are easily fixed with no need to re-apply material.
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Old 03-29-2016, 07:51 AM
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unless there is a problem in color. most common problem is light spots and sanding through the clear. then it becomes a pia. lifting clear when trying to spot it in, die back of the clear coat. i have never been a fan of bb/cc . i only use it if i a doing custom work or metallic. the majority of my jobs are solids usually black. i have several that were painted in the 80's still on the road today. one 41 ford was done with centari enamel and has over 100k miles on it. so durability is not a factor in ss versus bb/cc .
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Old 03-29-2016, 12:12 PM
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You mentioned if theres a problem with color... basecoat paint dries fast and defects can easily be solved before laying clear down at all. As far as durability goes, I'll not dispute anyone's statements but will again remind the OP that single stage paints have exposed pigment and leave it at that. The choice is obvious and nobody wants me to start trying to prove it by chest-thumping and examples. Ask any paint manufacturer, they make the stuff.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 03-29-2016, 12:19 PM
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I can see both sides very easily. With SS you have just the one thing to worry about, makes sense. Just the one thing to correct flaws, makes sense. I sprayed too many gallons of SS to count before I ever shot bc/cc, it was an easy way to go. But you also have the pressure to make that one application perfect!

What I found when I started shooting BC/CC was that it was more relaxing, You can take all the time you want spraying the base, get all the edges, apply it over and over, never having to worry about gloss and perfection. Once you have the color all sprayed to your liking, you apply the clear to make it nice and shiny. And again, with the clear you don't have to worry about the color, basic coverage is your only concern, and making it shine.

They both have things about them that make it easier than the other.


Brian
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 03-29-2016, 12:37 PM
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we are talking diy guys who have never painted. most common problem is poor coverage after getting it cleared and outside. now we have base and several coats of clear . only to need to sand rebase and reclear usually busting though clear and creating a new set of problems. i see it constantly here and on other sites. where this idea came from that bc/cc is the holy grail i have no idea. bc/cc is basically for repair. now with the tri coats and pearls today it is a must. but if shooting a solid color there is no real advantage. i will never clear a black car or even a red car . no need. enamel was created to end the labor intensive lacquer on all overs. it did just fine for 50 years as does single stage urethane. base is the weak link . that is why it is recommended to acc the base now days .
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Old 03-29-2016, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by shine View Post
we are talking diy guys who have never painted. most common problem is poor coverage after getting it cleared and outside. now we have base and several coats of clear . only to need to sand rebase and reclear usually busting though clear and creating a new set of problems. i see it constantly here and on other sites. where this idea came from that bc/cc is the holy grail i have no idea. bc/cc is basically for repair. now with the tri coats and pearls today it is a must. but if shooting a solid color there is no real advantage. i will never clear a black car or even a red car . no need. enamel was created to end the labor intensive lacquer on all overs. it did just fine for 50 years as does single stage urethane. base is the weak link . that is why it is recommended to acc the base now days .
I am with you on the coverage, probably the biggest mistake made by the newbe. But that happens with SS too (ask me how I know LOL).

I certainly understand as when I went to bc/cc I had already shot hundreds of gallons of SS. But I honestly think the bc/cc can be easier in that regard.

But then it really is just each of use are different and we see things different. I don't think it is that big of a deal either way, SS, BC/CC, the learning curve is steep on that first job. I say paint a bunch of small parts, a few junk fenders, that sort of thing to get comfortable with what ever you choose.

Brian
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 03-31-2016, 07:47 AM
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I have done many repairs on black BC/CC cars and only painted the panel with SS. If I cant tell the difference when they are right next to each other no one can, its been proven over and over again. I actually paint cars for a living, this topic has come up many ,many times the result is always the same. nobody can tell the difference until its sanded and theres black dust or white dust,red or whatever.

Ask any painter what is easier to paint, SS solid color or BC/CC.

So for your first diy paint job you'll have many things working against you why add to it with a system that's twice the labor and twice the cost when its the inexperience with labor that's going to get you in trouble and the cost that'll make all the stress in getting it right...

It would be nice to have some of the members that have done their first paint jobs tell of their experiances and now that they have one under their belt what do they think. what problems they've had and so on. This stuff matters and its important to the other DIY's
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Old 03-31-2016, 09:13 AM
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i can tell the difference in black SS or bc/cc . when just finished it is not easy but once it has been in service for a while it becomes easier . i stopped clearing black after having 2 older black jobs at the same rod run. one was bc/cc the other was centari enamel . it's not much but there is a difference.
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Old 03-31-2016, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by shine View Post
i can tell the difference in black SS or bc/cc . when just finished it is not easy but once it has been in service for a while it becomes easier . i stopped clearing black after having 2 older black jobs at the same rod run. one was bc/cc the other was centari enamel . it's not much but there is a difference.
A cut and buffed solid color SS job has a look, damn it POPS so much more than a BC/CC. Now a foot thick clear over a metal flake, THAT pops so much more than a SS metallic!

They have a different look that's for sure.

Brian
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 03-31-2016, 12:17 PM
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I painted for two years full time using Sikkens in a downdraft bake booth in the late 90s and sprayed my first complete on my own ride with Deltron DBU and Durethane clear in 1989 in a warehouse. It was beautiful as-sprayed so no buffing and looked fresh as day one the day it went to a junk yard.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 03-31-2016, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by idrivejunk View Post
I painted for two years full time using Sikkens in a downdraft bake booth in the late 90s and sprayed my first complete on my own ride with Deltron DBU and Durethane clear in 1989 in a warehouse. It was beautiful as-sprayed so no buffing and looked fresh as day one the day it went to a junk yard.
Does Deltron still smell the same? I remember spraying it when it was first released in the late 70's. The rep came by and guided me through a 48 Chevy woodie painting all the sheetmetal in black Deltron. Remember, we had a Lacquer mixing system. This was when PPG was DITZLER!

Anyway, I remember that smell, it was so different! Years later I worked on a car and sanded it and even sanding it, it smelled different! A very strong unique smell, so frigging odd! I don't know the last time I touched it but just a few years ago as I remember, and the smell just hit me!

Brian
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 04-02-2016, 07:39 AM
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sounds like most of us started out using SS solid colors. I cut my teeth on Centari also. I haven't used it in many years the urathanes seem to be a lot better. Do they still make Centari ? I know Dupont has sold out
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Old 04-02-2016, 08:36 AM
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i started with nitrocellulose lacquer . the enamel then had to be baked . horrible stuff. most folks dont realize lacquer was shot to be glossy back then. you had to build a paint job not just shoot a bunch on and buff . clear lacquer was used to cover the blend. bc/cc is no different than using lacquer and a clear coat.

mike, centari 5000 is still made . i have not used it in a long time. they stopped offering the urethane glamour pack at one time so i switched to straight ss urethane . if i could find the glamour pack i would use it in a heartbeat for black .

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