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Old 07-30-2020, 06:02 PM
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welder on a 60a sub panel?

Building a garage big enough to do some stuff in but it's nothing special ( 18' deep, 24' wide ). I can only afford about 60A to a sub due to the main panel being pretty full.

I want a decent 240a welder and a compressor, but not on at the same time obviously. Lights will be LED and 110v outlets..

Is a 30A 240v circuit going to be enough? A 30A circuit and a 20A circuit is the only way I can think of doing it

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Old 07-30-2020, 07:11 PM
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Mine works great on a 75' of 8/3 wire, 30 amp breaker. never been a problem at all.
Your welder should have a spec for it.
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Old 07-30-2020, 08:16 PM
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I have used a dryer plug at 30 amps, adapter, and a 50 foot extension cord to weld up to 3/8" thick material.

Never had a issue.

50' is about as much as you want to run. But it is enough to shove the thing out a window or run it to the garage for welding.

I have one similar to this..
https://www.amazon.com/iMeshbean-Wel.../dp/B07K3X9PWC
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Old 07-31-2020, 05:50 AM
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A 60 amp feed should be fine. Calculating load from welders and motors (compressors, etc.) is a little more complicated than simple resistive load (heaters, etc), so you don’t just add up amperage. 60 amps will handle the need for most home shops.

Buy a 100 amp panel to get more breaker spaces and space in the box to wire. Size the breaker in the main panel to match the wire you use to make the connection. Many folks use aluminum 2-2-2-4 MHF or SER because it’s easy to find, relatively cheap, and will handle up to 90 amps. I have 2-2-2-4 AL on a 60 amp breaker in a Square D QO panel and the larger wire fits fine.

When you buy your wire, ensure it’s rated for your planned use. For example, SER can’t be buried , even in conduit, and some MHF is not rated for indoor use. However dual rated MHF ( can be used both buried and indoor in conduit) is easy to find.

Bruce

Last edited by 75gmck25; 07-31-2020 at 05:55 AM.
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Old 07-31-2020, 06:44 AM
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more circuits in 100 panel

with a 100 amp panel there is room to have more circuits , separate general use, a separate one down each side and mabe a couple dedicated 20 amp 110 and extra 240 outlets so you don't have to unplug machinery to plug in the plasm, welder, Milling machine or what ever tools you add to your shop. there is a formula to calculate the size of panel you need in a factory based on estimated use time. It's been 25 years since I did that kind of work. since you will probably work alone extra circuits in the box wont bother except when a large compressor kicks in when you are welding, My lights used to blink -dim.
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Old 07-31-2020, 06:54 AM
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more space

You can buy twin breakers , two breaker switches that fit in a single space for 110 to get more breaker space in your main panel although a lot of wires gets cramped. an electrician can give guidance, you don' want high load 220 breakers on opposite sides in the panel , your new 60 should not use the same lugs as your 50 amp elect range. some times you have to move the breakers around.
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Old 07-31-2020, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matt167 View Post
I can only afford about 60A to a sub due to the main panel being pretty full.
a 60 amp panel will be fine for most shops. but i question your why.
breakers are used to protect wire and equipment. in residential use a 200a panel can have a 500+ amps worth of breakers in it. most breakers have zero or minimal load on them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 75gmck25 View Post
A 60 amp feed should be fine. Calculating load from welders and motors (compressors, etc.) is a little more complicated than simple resistive load (heaters, etc), so you donít just add up amperage. 60 amps will handle the need for most home shops.

Buy a 100 amp panel to get more breaker spaces and space in the box to wire. Size the breaker in the main panel to match the wire you use to make the connection.
agree with everything here. i bought a 12 space panel to replace an old fuse type panel in my shop. since i have #10 wire and 30a breaker in my main panel, i just threw in a 30a breaker as a main disconnect. 30a isn't much but i manage with a 240v, 20a compressor, 120v welder and many 1 hp power tools.

Quote:
Originally Posted by timothale View Post
You can buy twin breakers , two breaker switches that fit in a single space for 110 to get more breaker space in your main panel although a lot of wires gets cramped. an electrician can give guidance, you don' want high load 220 breakers on opposite sides in the panel , your new 60 should not use the same lugs as your 50 amp elect range. some times you have to move the breakers around.
also look at quad breakers for your 240v stuff, quads have a 240v circuit in the middle and two 120v circuits outside in 2 spaces. make sure that quad breakers are available for your make of panel. you may have to order them, but square d homeline has a lot of quad breakers available in different sizes.
i've never heard of not having 240v circuits on opposing sides, that may be a local preference


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Old 07-31-2020, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timothale View Post
You can buy twin breakers , two breaker switches that fit in a single space for 110 to get more breaker space in your main panel although a lot of wires geets cramped. an electrician can give guidance, you don' want high load 220 breakers on opposite sides in the panel , your new 60 should not use the same lugs as your 50 amp elect range. some times you have to move the breakers around.
Each lug in the box is capable of carrying the max load , makes no difference where you place the breakers. Most residential outlets are rated at only 15 amps , if you're using 15 amp outlets you should be using 15 amp breakers .if the outlets are above a concrete floor they should be ground fault or arc fault depending on your code . Get a code book & make yourself familiar with the rules ..
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Old 07-31-2020, 04:56 PM
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There have been 4 people and 2 electricians in this box. Everything is code and inspected in it's current configuration, but the last electrician swapped some breakers around and didn't tidy his work.. I really don't want to mess with really thick wires if I don't have to since it would probably turn into a full R&R.. I would like 100A for sure.

I bought a 6 space 100A Square D QO panel. I think will be fine for an 18x24.. Will have 20A circuits for outlets as I do have a 110v MIG
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Old 07-31-2020, 06:57 PM
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Depends on the welder and compressor current requirements. I've been sharing a single outlet between a Miller 175 amp MIG welder and a 3.5 hp compressor for nearly 20 years now. Circuit is 230 volts / 20 amps. Never once tripped the breaker.

New house / new garage will have multiple 230 volt / 30 amp circuits, which is overkill, but allows for a bigger compressor and maybe a lift. It also has 20 amp circuits throughout the house for outlets, and 15 amps only for lights. Shouldn't see any light dimming when iron or hair dryer kicks on, like in my current house where lights and outlets are on the same circuit -- sometimes for multiple rooms.

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Old 07-31-2020, 08:58 PM
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welderrating.

My Lincoln 255 Square wave tig also has a water cool torch with a 110 v pump.
the Lincoln manual calls out for a 100 amp breaker and 6 ga wire. probably why I was told not to have a high load breaker opposite in the panel.
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Old 07-31-2020, 09:48 PM
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more electrical,

breaker location not a specific paragraph in the code but follow manufacture recommendation
. I have a gen contractors Lic but not elect Lic

from my code check forum

"Many panels have a stated current-limit per stab, often 100 or 125 amps, so you shouldn't put the largest 2-poles opposing each other, which is another reason I do it this way. "
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Old 08-02-2020, 06:34 AM
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I think I'm going to use 2-2-2-4 Mobile Home Feeder and sending it 100A.. I'll use a 50A breaker, and 2 20A breakers. One circuit for lighting and 1 wall of the building and then another circuit for just the other side of the building

It's about a 35' run from panel to panel.
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Old 08-02-2020, 07:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timothale View Post
breaker location not a specific paragraph in the code but follow manufacture recommendation
. I have a gen contractors Lic but not elect Lic

from my code check forum

"Many panels have a stated current-limit per stab, often 100 or 125 amps, so you shouldn't put the largest 2-poles opposing each other, which is another reason I do it this way. "
Just curious , but what , in a home shop , would require multiple 100-125 amp breakers ? And I really don't care if you're 007 ( licensed to kill )
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Old 08-02-2020, 08:07 AM
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big machines

I have bought used commercial machinery, a welder that has a 100% duty cycle at 100 amps, next planned purchase is at least a 10 to 15 horse commercial air compressor, probably new. so I can sand blast and not lose air. My home made blast cabined will hold rear ends with work space. right now we are working to get the engineering drawings for a 45 X 60 ft shop on my step sons 1 1/2 acre home 1/2 mile where we now live. My 24 X 36 garage is too small. will move welders torch, rotton leonard plasma tracerm tire mounter and balancer,. but our home shop also supports our farm, but we currently have most of the farm land leased out.
The Lincoln 255 will also stick weld and I read that with a carbon arc rod you can use it to shrink metal for body work. I use the oxy acety for that. The Lincoln has the High freq that can also be used when stick welding. has a pulser so you can be hot to start a tig then pulse down to not burn thru but not have the fire go out, the ac balance works great for aluminum. there are a lot more features you can get on a good used commercial equipment.

Last edited by timothale; 08-02-2020 at 08:18 AM.
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