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  #22081 (permalink)  
Old 02-01-2018, 07:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike the painter View Post
Would it be possible to change the way the seat mounts to the frame by raising the front about an inch an a half? It might be better to make changes to the seat than the frame. Impalas also have no bolts up front theres a hook like mount you unbolt the back then lift the back up and pull the whole seat back and it comes right out. Theres also a 2x4 looking hump that the front mounts to. I noticed you have the seat all the way forward you might try it somewhere in the middle maybe you'll better luck but look at a 2000-2010 Impala and you might get some ideas. I'd hate to cut into that beautiful frame work you've done.
Its an Art Morrison Engineering frame, a redesign with exhaust running next to the driveshaft INSIDE the frame. The hook idea has no value in this case, (but seriously thanks for that input, guys. I'll use studs on the inside track) only the right rear corner has interference. Seat mounts to body, not frame. FWIW, Grand Prix and Impala from this century and late last, are both W-bodies so they share the floor. Still no help using that arrangement. The seat itself has to occupy space that the rail does now, or you'll have to reach over to steer and duck to see out the windshield. Gotta run, for now...

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  #22082 (permalink)  
Old 02-01-2018, 07:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by idrivejunk View Post
My 99 Pontiacs also have hooks in front. But its only the rear thats a problem, the front is above the rail. The right rear driver's seat attaching point needs to be roughly an inch and a half down and in to the rail to have the column point at the center of the seat, and to have headroom. Does that make more sense?

I will have to use vertical studs on the inside seat track, and tuck a tab off the floor bracing into the wedge shaped pocket I'll create in the rail. Theres no alternative but to forget bucket seats. Any properly positioned driver's bucket seat will have the right rear corner well 'inside" the rail. I do have marks showing the bolt positions, zoom in full size and look for writing next to marks on top of the rail in the bottom pic if you can ignore all the scribbly stuff. Seats have not been selected and whats shown is just to get an idea. Any bucket will have the same need.
Now I see your marks for the rear mount. I had thoiught you were looking at the front and thought that would be a terrible place to cut into the frame.

Carry on. Just treat this like it is your job, not ours. The rest of us will be eagerly waiting for our daily fix, err, I meant pictures. :

Also, we need to find out from Mitch what kind of filler is on the F1. Most are not designed to sculpt a whole truck out of. Must be good stuff, huh?

John
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  #22083 (permalink)  
Old 02-01-2018, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John long View Post
Now I see your marks for the rear mount. I had thoiught you were looking at the front and thought that would be a terrible place to cut into the frame.

Carry on. Just treat this like it is your job, not ours. The rest of us will be eagerly waiting for our daily fix, err, I meant pictures. :

Also, we need to find out from Mitch what kind of filler is on the F1. Most are not designed to sculpt a whole truck out of. Must be good stuff, huh?

John
Yes, you're right... at the front bolt area would be a no no. I messed around and blew the morning exploring my trans mount idea but hit a dead end with chassis man on that. So I rummaged around and found some Mustang seats that have tracks 3" closer together. 14" instead of 17. Those would still not clear, centered. But would be closer. I don't know about anybody else but if this was mine, I'd want the most luxurious seat I could get, not a buckboard. I believe it will need to be a manual seat in any case.
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  #22084 (permalink)  
Old 02-01-2018, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Too Many Projects View Post
'56 F1 street rod at work.



Fender contour I need to duplicate on the other side.



There was/is a 5 gallon bucket of bondo blending the fenders, hood and cowl.



I cut off the back of the fender, but there is still ~1 1/2" overlap for final fitment.



The cowl was hammered back pretty hard and the A pillar pushed back into the door. They still need to pull the cowl more.



The truck looks really nice on the outside, but it is a bondo artists build. Why would you just fill this vent instead of cutting it out and using a nice piece of sheet metal ?



Repro grille mount panel and lower valance fit pretty well. It matches the original fender nice enough.





Can't say as much for the repro fender. That will require slicing and dicing but I will leave that to the body shop that we are doing the frame and hood for.

Looks like that was a nice truck at one time and soon will be again ,he kinda followed along the lines as most lead sleds and chop tops..Lots of lead and filler .not how i would like it to be but some do it to thier abality at the time..Coddington and Barris made a good living packing on yhe mud.
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  #22085 (permalink)  
Old 02-01-2018, 06:02 PM
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I did not hack the hourglass frame but did start piecing the trans tunnel and right pan together. I figure I put enough scare into everyone by lunch about notching the frame that I could forget about it and see what develops.

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  #22086 (permalink)  
Old 02-01-2018, 07:03 PM
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Notch the frame. What's the big deal? Weld in some 1/8" steel into the notch and move on.
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  #22087 (permalink)  
Old 02-01-2018, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by 123pugsy View Post
Notch the frame. What's the big deal? Weld in some 1/8" steel into the notch and move on.
Thats the consensus at the shop. I never cut a frame before. Some say so what, some say it will easily break. To satisfy my own curiosity I believe I'll bolt the original seat to the original floor piece I saved, set it back in the original position and get some facts to build on.
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  #22088 (permalink)  
Old 02-01-2018, 08:05 PM
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16 Accord w/ only 7k miles. New quarter, trunk floor, ext, lower rail, upper rail, tail light pocket, rear body. Rear cradle up 23mm. No way this totals.

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This was a pain in the *** getting that cradle back in spec cause it required so many pulls that I had to recenter it a couple times due to the possibility of it moving on the clamps.

Down pulls are so much better on Chief racks. Down pulling on Car O liner is a joke. Someone took off the re bar otherwise I'd be pulling off the rebar from both sides of it. What's not seen is the blocking I had to do to the quarter gaps while down pulling. These quarters move in so easily on down pulls, but it was hitting the decklid when it arrived in the shop.

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since the rebar was taken out and this was the side that was up the most I had to drill thru the upper and lower rail to put this guy in there. This worked well in getting it down as hooks kept tearing metal and not getting the job done. Not a lot of experience with Chief but I love their racks now in conjunction with Car O liner measuring systems. I was on the rack all day getting this thing in spec. A real pain in the ***. after I cut out some metal I can get the good quarter gap better. Time to break out the saw zaw

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  #22089 (permalink)  
Old 02-01-2018, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by idrivejunk View Post
Thats the consensus at the shop. I never cut a frame before. Some say so what, some say it will easily break. To satisfy my own curiosity I believe I'll bolt the original seat to the original floor piece I saved, set it back in the original position and get some facts to build on.
just brace the heck out of it, notch it, and gusset it. I feel your concern though. I never did one but that would seem to make sense.
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  #22090 (permalink)  
Old 02-02-2018, 06:01 AM
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Originally Posted by 496CHEVY3100 View Post
Looks like that was a nice truck at one time and soon will be again ,he kinda followed along the lines as most lead sleds and chop tops..Lots of lead and filler .not how i would like it to be but some do it to thier abality at the time..Coddington and Barris made a good living packing on yhe mud.
I had a simalar issue with the replacement fender on my '56 except the replacement had a 1/2" pie shaped hole where it meets up with valance. I had to cut a patch panel from that area of the original fender. I decided to replace the fender to save some time because it have some crash repair done in its past with a slide hammer with the holes left open and a bunch of mud to smooth it out. Good looking truck.
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  #22091 (permalink)  
Old 02-02-2018, 06:24 AM
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just brace the heck out of it, notch it, and gusset it. I feel your concern though. I never did one but that would seem to make sense.
I guess the naysayers' concern is that the metal will be more brittle around the weld and snap the frame in two on a curve. Maybe real quick. I have to wonder how that could happen since I would be welding in a welded area. I laid out the facts, now I await command. My first hand go-to answer man did not bat an eye at notching and has background creating limousines which is valuable experience concerning this. IMO. Hopefully logic will prevail.

Your brand new wreck makes me cringe. Those exemplify how the world drops ethics when money is involved. Reminds me of a few stories that I'll spare you. Cradle up 28? Just try to not go broke on the one job. One thing I did notice about wrecks... if the vehicle has any areas that require absolute perfection, like double doors, sliding doors, massive liftgate...thats right where it gets hammered beyond all recognition and thats where there will be no measuring points and you have to install and remove the big panel, pull, tear down the pull setup and build doors again then repeat until reperfect. I hate asking guys to come help hang stuff a bajillion times. And sometimes yeah, you need that bent rebar up there. Before the Sawzall comes out.
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  #22092 (permalink)  
Old 02-02-2018, 06:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John long View Post
Now I see your marks for the rear mount. I had thoiught you were looking at the front and thought that would be a terrible place to cut into the frame.

Carry on. Just treat this like it is your job, not ours. The rest of us will be eagerly waiting for our daily fix, err, I meant pictures. :

Also, we need to find out from Mitch what kind of filler is on the F1. Most are not designed to sculpt a whole truck out of. Must be good stuff, huh?

John
Ancient sculptor secret... You know why bodyfiller gallons are short-filled? So you can top them off with the correct amount of concrete mix right there in the can.. to do stuff like that. Mitch might need a HF jackhammer. But damn thats a sharp 56. 56 Ford trucks just look bit chun.
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Old 02-02-2018, 06:39 AM
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Originally Posted by 496CHEVY3100 View Post
Looks like that was a nice truck at one time and soon will be again ,he kinda followed along the lines as most lead sleds and chop tops..Lots of lead and filler .not how i would like it to be but some do it to thier abality at the time..Coddington and Barris made a good living packing on yhe mud.
I just saw a glass tilt nose for that truck on craigs list 200.00.... LOL we call that Aussie metal work at the shop. Its way down under (the bondo)
I've been shocked many times at the horrors lurking under shiny paint. those vent louvers are prime example. I cant believe for a minute that there wasnt a ghost outline showing there.
When cars bodies are made of bondo then all the guys doing this kind of work can be called "body" men, until then theres another word for them but I'll keep that one to myself.
Your right to cut a patch and weld it in because if you dont there WILL be a ghost shadow there and the owner will go crazy, he knows its there, it'll be the first thing he looks at. I'll betcha.
Pretty color though. looks like he put all his money in the looks and shiny stuff.
Just goes to show you CAN polish a turd.
Your a brave man I'd be afraid of shutting the door and a chunk of bondo falling out of it.
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Old 02-02-2018, 07:08 AM
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I guess the naysayers' concern is that the metal will be more brittle around the weld and snap the frame in two on a curve. Maybe real quick. I have to wonder how that could happen since I would be welding in a welded area. I laid out the facts, now I await command. My first hand go-to answer man did not bat an eye at notching and has background creating limousines which is valuable experience concerning this. IMO. Hopefully logic will prevail.

Your brand new wreck makes me cringe. Those exemplify how the world drops ethics when money is involved. Reminds me of a few stories that I'll spare you. Cradle up 28? Just try to not go broke on the one job. One thing I did notice about wrecks... if the vehicle has any areas that require absolute perfection, like double doors, sliding doors, massive liftgate...thats right where it gets hammered beyond all recognition and thats where there will be no measuring points and you have to install and remove the big panel, pull, tear down the pull setup and build doors again then repeat until reperfect. I hate asking guys to come help hang stuff a bajillion times. And sometimes yeah, you need that bent rebar up there. Before the Sawzall comes out.
kids took it off, so I'll be sure they don't take them off if there's any notable damage. I'll tell them what to look for. CarOliner does have some side body measurements. I have learned to order a new hinge while getting an L hook between the hinge and pull it on the door, but only for light rolls, for bigger I just measure and pull it, get the outer on and roll out the last bit with a hammer and 2x4 on the hinges with the door on, and there's often a little bit of play even with shouldered bolts. On old cars notching it makes it stronger if we're talking mild steel. It's the newer frames where you can't add heat.
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  #22095 (permalink)  
Old 02-02-2018, 05:49 PM
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Remember the bolt-on replacement crush caps on older GMTs? Hydroformed rail with a welded cap from the factory. I guess I have cut frames for that, but thats it. On those unibody rails I liked to get rear body panel snipped out to a point where I could go in the end of a rail and clamp one side of it. And yep, the Shark I used had a few hinge and tower measuring points but on like a liftgate or van door yer on yer own. BTW I think most down pulls I made were done by tying down and pushing up with jacks. For whatever reason it seems more effective than the down pull arrangement of racks I've encountered.

Today I picked up around the Pontiac job and started on a 71 Chevelle, to get gaps all around including one replacement fender and headlight panel. I didn't get far. One side of the trunk lid has an unparallel gap, right door and quarter mismatch at top... etc. I am working on it. Trunk lid gap not solvable by adjustment, and back edge of the fender did not follow the door by a longshot so I yanked and hacked it and have it back on fitting better but all I have is befores. Snapped one of the loud orange Chevy mill though, I can put that up later from the phone if Mitch don't show up with a fixing fix.

If I can toot about anything today, its that tomorrow Grant Cox is shooting 3 features on cars done at the shop, weather permitting.
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