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  #24526 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2018, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by idrivejunk View Post
You both angered Chief Pontiac's spirit, apparently. My proximity and ride choice is all that saves me.

Mitch, pretend they were marked but wrong. You'd be driving to the parts house to pass out thank yous. This way if you use your hustle muscle you can make it. If not, Navajo blanket(s).

Pugsy I only wanted to use the mirror you had laying on your core support. But if it was running, that handy fan would whisk away the trimmings.

Break a leg, both of you.

Wow, look! Theres more lemon pie left! Have a slice on me and I'll tell you a LKQ Chevy story...

Who gets this square middle piece?

That is a thing of beauty... I'm hoping that I can even get close to that with mine.

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  #24527 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2018, 02:15 PM
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Ya, that is one fine looking banana for sure.


I gotta go start mine now...I may be feeling like Mitch soon.....
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  #24528 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2018, 02:33 PM
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So after ol Yeller there came into the shop, a guy started stripping paint. Another guy hung a new right fender. Didn't fit. Right headlight panel was tweaked and broken too. I was fitting it to the door when strip man got to that door.

It had a big crease and huge mud. Door skin and right headlight panel ordered. HL panel on B/O but boss pulled one out like a rabbit from a hat. Enter technician number four.

Slick skinned the right door, patched quarters and replaced trunk drops, patched trunk lid shell, replaced rear window panel, patched over roof seams, and uncovered big bad patchwork hiding mondo rust, so order fender number two.

With these things done in a timely manner, customer compares "OE-type" (2 coats of clear, nibbed and polished) paint with "Show" paint firsthand, side by side, and opts for show. In addition, he "...wants GAPS!". Our man proceeds and gaps all the panels to a thin paint stick.

A flurry of spot filling, a good hit of polyester primer then blocking with it assembled, and then taken apart, final primed and sanded then painted. Thats how the story went between my time on it, then and now.

So to review, it has a deckid thet was badly damaged in the jamb, rear window rot, quarter and drop off rot, lip quarter and well rot. It got two new fenders, right door skin, rear window panel, right headlight panel.

To boot, a previous salvage section repair had been made to the left A pillar so the driver's door is likely also salvage. As was the left fender.

With me so far? OK. Its just a malibu with clean floors and I'm not sure if its a 71 or 2 but I have been calling it a 71 while the stuff bought looks all 72. So shoot me.

Now, all that being said, and all those nailbiter gaps being insanely tight but now quite pretty...

I ran into a problem that wasn't there in primer. I present said problem for your speculation. I had an hour left and got help so the bumper and hood are "on it" but look-







Whut th'...? ... is what me and Slick both said.

Looks like the core support needs to move to our right, but fender is up against bumper end. It was not this way in primer. Therefore I grump. It was time to go. Forgetting it until Monday.

It has been pleasant to not drag in looking like the Cat this week.



Gee whiz, that looks like the fire department was here!
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  #24529 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2018, 02:47 PM
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Someone tell me I's stoopid or something, please....and I did X and X wrong.....


So, why would I turn off the engine and the fan clutch is at 170, would it be free wheeling easily???????????


David, where are you??
You mentioned you're running a truck clutch, no? Is yours snug to spin by hand after the engine is hot?
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  #24530 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2018, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cozwurth View Post
That is a thing of beauty... I'm hoping that I can even get close to that with mine.
Thank you sir.

I gotta say: no way, no how do I spprove of those gaps on that car. They are unrealistic. They are not only way too tight but also the edges are too square. Looks fake plastic, like its fiberglass, or a model. I assure you its all metal all the way to the edges of everything, and that the owner may shed a tear of delight when he sees it. I might. He got gaps to die for. Don't push for gaps like this, be reasonable. Round edges, leave slam room and railroad crossing wiggle room, and room for everything to clear if you have to park in an unlevel spot.

Its got very little tolerance in places when opening doors. As I said, it was a genuine nail-biter to assemble, and the whole time it was in bodywork I hoped not to draw this straw. In this case, I prevailed and have not hurt it so far. Not without pushing my luck... I did not tape a thing, just stuck it together naked like crash shop days. Whew!
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  #24531 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2018, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by 123pugsy View Post
Someone tell me I's stoopid or something, please....and I did X and X wrong.....


So, why would I turn off the engine and the fan clutch is at 170, would it be free wheeling easily???????????


David, where are you??
You mentioned you're running a truck clutch, no? Is yours snug to spin by hand after the engine is hot?
From 71 olds GM chassis service manual, in a nutshell:

Cover grille sufficiently to cause a hot condition, with engine cool and fan clutch disengaged. Start engine and max out the A/C. Peg it at two grand for five to ten minutes (remove grille cover if hot light comes on) and listen from front of vehicle during this time. Should be an obvious whoosh. Now turn off A/C, remove grill cover and listen again. If it does not stop whooshing in several minutes, its bad.

I wonder what happens if with hot engine off, if you have a heat gun in one hand and laser thermometer in the other and you heat the face of the clutch to like 220. Try a thermostat for grins yet? Shutting pie hole now. Rooting for you. Win.
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  #24532 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2018, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by idrivejunk View Post
From 71 olds GM chassis service manual, in a nutshell:

Cover grille sufficiently to cause a hot condition, with engine cool and fan clutch disengaged. Start engine and max out the A/C. Peg it at two grand for five to ten minutes (remove grille cover if hot light comes on) and listen from front of vehicle during this time. Should be an obvious whoosh. Now turn off A/C, remove grill cover and listen again. If it does not stop whooshing in several minutes, its bad.

I wonder what happens if with hot engine off, if you have a heat gun in one hand and laser thermometer in the other and you heat the face of the clutch to like 220. Try a thermostat for grins yet? Shutting pie hole now. Rooting for you. Win.

Thanks.



I'm feeling like Mitch now...me and CURSE are gonna jump off a bridge together...went out and she's drawing air in idle now with AC running and is OK....WTF??? I will go to pick up my daughter soon and see how it goes. Lots of traffic now to idle along in, in gear.



One good thing. I know the shroud is working good when the fan is running. Rad is around 120 - 130 at the front. Back side was like 143 or so.


Thermostat will only cause more problems with less heat in the rad being transferred to the clutch?
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  #24533 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2018, 04:42 PM
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Tonight I got out there and finished cutting the riser, it is turning out perfect. You can see in the photos how I cut the first cut around 3" off the floor all the way around.

I then trimmed off an inch or so off the bottom of the top piece. I then clamped it in place to mark and trim the lower piece on the sides. Wham bam, trimmed that at the line and it is ready to prep for welding, that easy!

Yes, it was fun, not like the CRAP I did at work today.

I then got out for a 4 mile walk.

Brian
I took the easy way out with seat rise jfust 12 guage sheetmetal and filled with expanging fom as the metal would flex without some suppurt,,solid and quiet now,my metal skills are not as good as yours or others on here so i went with this a little extra work to have a 12v cooler put of sight it is covered in carper any way.
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  #24534 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2018, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 123pugsy View Post
Someone tell me I's stoopid or something, please....and I did X and X wrong.....


So, why would I turn off the engine and the fan clutch is at 170, would it be free wheeling easily???????????


David, where are you??
You mentioned you're running a truck clutch, no? Is yours snug to spin by hand after the engine is hot?
Mine starts turning even when Cold and will spin for a few hundred yards and then quiet down,and dont restart until it gets hot,,and yes you can spin it by hand ,the centrifucal part engages it similar to a Go Cart clutch but if temp is up it does not have to be turning fast to engage and u can spin it by hand but only about 1/4 to 1/2 after you let it go then it will stop.

I raced dirt track for years we ran a washer instead of a thermostat to keep water from circulating to fast it doest have time for the radiator to cool..my Z28 HAS to have a thermostat I run a 180 degree not a 160 because of same effect,,i do have a full shroud and I set my fan blades ,(looking at it from the top, the blades Must sit half way in the shroud ,,if you cant see half the fan blade adjust it in or out with spacer to pull maximun air,,to deep in shroud is just as bad as to shallow,also if you have a electric fan as I do be certain the shaft of the electric fan and the water pump fan are exact or they will fight each other,,and Last DO NOT run a high volume water pump on the street ,fine for a drag car but not a street for same reason, hope this helps you,

i can now cruise at interstate speed with air on ,,or idle thru pigeon forge with air on no problems,and the engine is very healthy.

Last edited by 496CHEVY3100; 06-15-2018 at 05:09 PM.
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  #24535 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2018, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 123pugsy View Post
Thanks.



I'm feeling like Mitch now...me and CURSE are gonna jump off a bridge together...went out and she's drawing air in idle now with AC running and is OK....WTF??? I will go to pick up my daughter soon and see how it goes. Lots of traffic now to idle along in, in gear.



One good thing. I know the shroud is working good when the fan is running. Rad is around 120 - 130 at the front. Back side was like 143 or so.


Thermostat will only cause more problems with less heat in the rad being transferred to the clutch?
I think the opposite... thermostat presence means more heat on clutch face. Plus equalizes the temp of all the coolant better. If thermostats weren't needed they wouldn't be in EVERY car since ever. If your temp sensor is in the head, that reading is less stable and much more alarming than a reading taken at the manifold. I don't become concerned until around 225-230 there. I installed the aux fan as training wheels until I could learn to do without it, and it is the only thing allowing me to hot idle in gear at ease. There, I only said I think once, the rest I think I know.

Make that a low water bridge by a swimming hole and bring kiddo.

Mitch can probably sling a few donuts with a GTO t shirt over the padding... oh wait, nope. But just half a dozen donuts (two left, one figure eight, two right, then keep it floored out onto the road) does help a sweaty man's disposition, I know that too.
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  #24536 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2018, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 123pugsy View Post
Someone tell me I's stoopid or something, please....and I did X and X wrong.....


So, why would I turn off the engine and the fan clutch is at 170, would it be free wheeling easily???????????


David, where are you??
You mentioned you're running a truck clutch, no? Is yours snug to spin by hand after the engine is hot?
If the clutch temp is 170, it won't think it's needed and be freewheeling. It may not start to bind up until around 200, as it's most likely designed to work with a 190-195 thermostat.
Temp sender in the heat is at the hottest point of the engine, right above all the explosions and fire, so they will run 30-35 higher than at the thermostat. doesn't mean the engine is running hot.
What is the temp of the thermostat housing, where the coolant leaves the engine ? and at the lower hose to pump ?
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  #24537 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2018, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 496CHEVY3100 View Post
Mine starts turning even when Cold and will spin for a few hundred yards and then quiet down,and dont restart until it gets hot,,and yes you can spin it by hand ,the centrifucal part engages it similar to a Go Cart clutch but if temp is up it does not have to be turning fast to engage and u can spin it by hand but only about 1/4 to 1/2 after you let it go then it will stop.

I raced dirt track for years we ran a washer instead of a thermostat to keep water from circulating to fast it doest have time for the radiator to cool..my Z28 HAS to have a thermostat I run a 180 degree not a 160 because of same effect,,i do have a full shroud and I set my fan blades ,(looking at it from the top, the blades Must sit half way in the shroud ,,if you cant see half the fan blade adjust it in or out with spacer to pull maximun air,,to deep in shroud is just as bad as to shallow,also if you have a electric fan as I do be certain the shaft of the electric fan and the water pump fan are exact or they will fight each other,,and Last DO NOT run a high volume water pump on the street ,fine for a drag car but not a street for same reason, hope this helps you,

i can now cruise at interstate speed with air on ,,or idle thru pigeon forge with air on no problems,and the engine is very healthy.



Thanks David.


Fan blades half in and half out now.





Just seemed that the fan didn't engage on the first test run of the new shroud.


Matt: I think I will install a thermostat, just for you, ha...


I will need to drill a small hole in it as this engine needed burping last time I had one in there.
Hopefully a whoosh of 180 degree water into the rad will warm up the clutch. Makes sense in a way as it will stop in the rad when the thermostat closes again.
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  #24538 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2018, 05:35 PM
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Someone tell me I's stoopid or something, please....and I did X and X wrong.....


So, why would I turn off the engine and the fan clutch is at 170, would it be free wheeling easily???????????


David, where are you??
You mentioned you're running a truck clutch, no? Is yours snug to spin by hand after the engine is hot?
Mine starts turning even when Cold and will spin for a few hundred yards and then quiet down,and dont restart until it gets hot,,and yes you can spin it by hand ,the centrifucal part engages it similar to a Go Cart clutch but if temp is up it does not have to be turning fast to engage and u can spin it by hand but only about 1/4 to 1/2 after you let it go then it will stop.
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  #24539 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2018, 05:55 PM
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Don't knock it til you try it, Pugs. For your own sanity, boil it with a meat thermometer first in the kitchen for a visual assurance. Think of it as shutting me up because I would if you did. I say if it hasn't puked yet, you ain't had it hot or it ain't full or you are a'feared to haul buns now. Can you fill thru a heater hose? If it clatters, that just means it isn't timed right for hot. Because it ain't been hot yet. Let the car tell you where the worry spot is on the gauge rather than drawing a line in the sand, so to speak. Read what Smokey Yunick said about operating temps. Keep cool

OK thats all the pep talk I got and no butt pats from me, I gotta go get Friday 455 time in. PONTIAC TIME! Blip the key blip the gas, blip as I pass Chevys.

Mitch, say how you did but don't quit before dark unless you finish.
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  #24540 (permalink)  
Old 06-15-2018, 06:12 PM
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I noticed that they were pretty close, but I was looking more at how even they are. I'd be happy with 'even' factory sized gaps. Also, the front end on my car also has those crazy uneven gaps at the hood/headlight bezel. But, it also has uneven gap at the bumper too. I know my core support needs to shift over. I'll worry about that when I make my way up to the front of the car. Gotta get my back window channel, sail panels and roof squared away first.
Quote:
Originally Posted by idrivejunk View Post
Thank you sir.

I gotta say: no way, no how do I spprove of those gaps on that car. They are unrealistic. They are not only way too tight but also the edges are too square. Looks fake plastic, like its fiberglass, or a model. I assure you its all metal all the way to the edges of everything, and that the owner may shed a tear of delight when he sees it. I might. He got gaps to die for. Don't push for gaps like this, be reasonable. Round edges, leave slam room and railroad crossing wiggle room, and room for everything to clear if you have to park in an unlevel spot.

Its got very little tolerance in places when opening doors. As I said, it was a genuine nail-biter to assemble, and the whole time it was in bodywork I hoped not to draw this straw. In this case, I prevailed and have not hurt it so far. Not without pushing my luck... I did not tape a thing, just stuck it together naked like crash shop days. Whew!
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