[bfreeasme2]

I am getting down to the point where I will be buying parts soon.
I have a couple of questions that I need some help with in regarding building this engine.

Stock 327 torn down but in excellent condition. I plan to bore .030 over minimum as condition requires.
My engine comes with a brand new stock dimension forged crank.

Edelbrock brand new edl-2201 rolling thunder cam
Edelbrock 2201 Edelbrock Rollin' Thunder Hydraulic Roller Camshafts & Kits - Free Shipping on All Orders @ JEGS - Free Shipping on All Orders @ JEGS

And a Edelbrock 7101 performer RPM intake Manifold , lightly used.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EDL-7101/

1-5/8 diameter headers. MSD ignitions. ( looking for favorites on these)

Howard lifters
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hrs-91164n


Is there an advantage, that is worth the additional cost, to buy forged pistons instead of Hypereutectic? Flat tops with two valve reliefs.
Speed-Pro L2165F30-8 : Speed-Pro Power Forged Pistons - Set of 8 - Flat Top - 4.030" Bore - Chevy - 327 $365

Sealed Power Hypereutectic Flat Top 2 Valve Reliefs Piston | Northern Auto Parts about $200

Can I use the existing 1962 327 connecting rods with either one of these pistons? ( Condition is great)

I am planning to buy the Pro-filer heads set up with springs for hydraulic roller cam with a lift of .550 will this work?
SBC 23 Degree Cylinder Head, 11/32 Guides & Steel Seats
Intake Port Size: 180cc Intake Ports
Chamber Size: 64cc As Cast Chamber
Spark Plug Orientation: Straight Plug
Intake Valves: 2.02/1.600 Valve Job
Spring Package: Standard .650 Lift 1.525 Dual Springs, Steel Retainers, Keepers Assembled
Casting Style: Standard Cooling
Item Number: 176 $1090 a set.

Please let me know what rod I should be getting and rockers.

My husband likes the Pro-comp heads ( price and reputation of old )but I have heard mixed reviews mostly based on country of origin and quality from one set to the next. Most common I have seen are 64cc with 185cc intake runners.

Which flow better? The Profilers or the Pro-comps? I have heard all heads out of the box need to be torn down and cleaned up, is this true?

And last but least, recommended rebuild kit ( gaskets, etc) to go with these setups and to get the appropriate squish of .040

Also Carb preferences?

I had a similar post back in April. As I said narrowing down the choices.

Thank you for your time.:welcome:
Lori-Anne

 

[bfreeasme2]

I also forgot to mention

We located the tranny

1963-1964 Muncie M-21 single ring with linkages attached. Just need the handle and ball now.

 

[ap72]

I am getting down to the point where I will be buying parts soon.
I have a couple of questions that I need some help with in regarding building this engine.

Stock 327 torn down but in excellent condition. I plan to bore .030 over minimum as condition requires.
My engine comes with a brand new stock dimension forged crank.

Edelbrock brand new edl-2201 rolling thunder cam
Edelbrock 2201 Edelbrock Rollin' Thunder Hydraulic Roller Camshafts & Kits - Free Shipping on All Orders @ JEGS - Free Shipping on All Orders @ JEGS

And a Edelbrock 7101 performer RPM intake Manifold , lightly used.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EDL-7101/

1-5/8 diameter headers. MSD ignitions. ( looking for favorites on these)

Howard lifters
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hrs-91164n


Is there an advantage, that is worth the additional cost, to buy forged pistons instead of Hypereutectic? Flat tops with two valve reliefs.
Speed-Pro L2165F30-8 : Speed-Pro Power Forged Pistons - Set of 8 - Flat Top - 4.030" Bore - Chevy - 327 $365

Sealed Power Hypereutectic Flat Top 2 Valve Reliefs Piston | Northern Auto Parts about $200

Can I use the existing 1962 327 connecting rods with either one of these pistons? ( Condition is great)

I am planning to buy the Pro-filer heads set up with springs for hydraulic roller cam with a lift of .550 will this work?
SBC 23 Degree Cylinder Head, 11/32 Guides & Steel Seats
Intake Port Size: 180cc Intake Ports
Chamber Size: 64cc As Cast Chamber
Spark Plug Orientation: Straight Plug
Intake Valves: 2.02/1.600 Valve Job
Spring Package: Standard .650 Lift 1.525 Dual Springs, Steel Retainers, Keepers Assembled
Casting Style: Standard Cooling
Item Number: 176 $1090 a set.

Please let me know what rod I should be getting and rockers.

My husband likes the Pro-comp heads ( price and reputation of old )but I have heard mixed reviews mostly based on country of origin and quality from one set to the next. Most common I have seen are 64cc with 185cc intake runners.

Which flow better? The Profilers or the Pro-comps? I have heard all heads out of the box need to be torn down and cleaned up, is this true?

And last but least, recommended rebuild kit ( gaskets, etc) to go with these setups and to get the appropriate squish of .040

Also Carb preferences?

I had a similar post back in April. As I said narrowing down the choices.

Thank you for your time.:welcome:
Lori-Anne

Okay, here are the changes I would make-
Forget the edelbrock cam and get a proper cam matched to the rest of your combo- don’t call a manifold company to buy a cam, its like going to a gas station for groceries.
The profiler heads are good heads if you have money to spend, Jegs sells them under their house brand label a little cheaper, I would use import heads but not ProComps, too many spotty stories for me to have confidence in them.
You don’t need an MSD ignition, a good standard HEI unit with a good module and coil is more than adequate.
Regarding the carb and intake- this is where I would spend some money and go EFI, but I like driving a lot and if this is only a “few weekends a year” car it may not be worth it to you.
I would also forget the stock rods and move to a 6.125” connecting rod and a good piston with a good ring package- so many people underestimate the value of piston rings. Mahle makes a nice kit.

 

[bfreeasme2]

The cam and intake came with the motor. This car is for show and go.

 

[ap72]

The cam and intake came with the motor. This car is for show and go.

well, a cam is usually chosen last, but if you want to save money and not get a proper cam I understand, money doesnt grow on trees. if you want to stick with a carb and intake then the rpm is a good choice. with that cam and good aluminum heads you'll want at least 10:1 compression. For a carb it depends on use but if this will be a street only car (track times not super critical) then go with a vacuum secondary.


for a good street carb I'd go with this one-
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/dem-1903/overview/

BTW if this is well built you could be in the 450hp+ range- that's nothing to sneeze at.

 

[bfreeasme2]

I am going for a period look with the carb, trying for an original look as much as possible but not sacrificing too much HP. My car is a blue hair right now but she will be a street car done up as a deluxe RS. Rear spoiler, front spoiler dam and 2" cowl induction hood, painted original paint color Tahoe Turquoise with bumble bee stripe. Deluxe interior. Muncie 4spd M-21.

No drag or strip usage. But I love a car with some serious HP under the hood. And one which sounds mean and responds mean but civilized enough for Sunday ice cream runs or long treks down the highway to shows.

And low 400 HP is my target.

 

[vinniekq2]

I like the bumble bee stripe.My 67 SS had almost zero for options,A.M. radio,it worked but who cares I like the stereo out the back. Aluminum heads are not era correct,,,neither is the RPM intake.
For driving, aluminum heads and RPM intake with a 750 cfm carb of choice. 1 5/8 headers are a good choice for a mild engine,if you step up to a good roller cam to take advantage of "good" heads then step up to 1 3/4 long tube headers. Muncie shifts nice and all but I see zero reasons to use a 4 speed when so many good 5 speeds are not that much more money.For rods,look at Howards, or other similar quality hi performance replacement rods.Not sure whats available in small journal rods at reasonable prices,also note piston selection will be less with custom long rods. 5.7 rods might be the best bang for the buck?

 

[ap72]

I like the bumble bee stripe.My 67 SS had almost zero for options,A.M. radio,it worked but who cares I like the stereo out the back. Aluminum heads are not era correct,,,neither is the RPM intake.
For driving, aluminum heads and RPM intake with a 750 cfm carb of choice. 1 5/8 headers are a good choice for a mild engine,if you step up to a good roller cam to take advantage of "good" heads then step up to 1 3/4 long tube headers. Muncie shifts nice and all but I see zero reasons to use a 4 speed when so many good 5 speeds are not that much more money.For rods,look at Howards, or other similar quality hi performance replacement rods.Not sure whats available in small journal rods at reasonable prices,also note piston selection will be less with custom long rods. 5.7 rods might be the best bang for the buck?

if they use a 6.125" rod they can use a piston for a 6' rod 350 (a lot available)- its why I chose that less common size. You can also run a 6.250" rod and run a piston for a 6" rod 383. It'll reduce wear and help it all remain stable at 7,000 rpm.

 

[vinniekq2]

Interesting math AP72, wasnt aware of small jounal 383 rods at a reasonable cost? For whats been indicated I lean towards $300 dollar replacement rods and hyper pistons,mild hydraulic roller cam,good quality head castings w/e they be?

Ap,what do you think about using .060 offset ground 350 large journal crank,using rebuilder .020 lower pin height pistons in a none decked block and making a budget 361 with .030 over bore? of course a large journal block is required or turn the mains down to standard small journal,,,

 

[ap72]

Interesting math AP72, wasnt aware of small jounal 383 rods at a reasonable cost? For whats been indicated I lean towards $300 dollar replacement rods and hyper pistons,mild hydraulic roller cam,good quality head castings w/e they be?

Ap,what do you think about using .060 offset ground 350 large journal crank,using rebuilder .020 lower pin height pistons in a none decked block and making a budget 361 with .030 over bore? of course a large journal block is required or turn the mains down to standard small journal,,,

if you're trying to max our CI on a restricted class it may make sense but on an open platform (home hotrodding) I wouldn't mess with it UNLESS I had free machine work.

Keep in mind those cheap pistons have more problems than just height- thick ring packs and poor material, usually quite heavy, etc.

 

[AutoGear]

So you have the Rollin Thunder camshaft, and Howards lifters? Not bad. The R/T cam isn't the best choice, especially when you havent settled on the heads/head gasket/piston relationship to get your static compression ratio nailed down.
You may find that selling the camshaft for $150 and getting the perfect cam for your compression ratio, rear axle ratio and driving style is easier, with less compromises to Squish, Quench and driveability.

For me? I'd go with a quality Hypereutectic piston. I'd be WAY more interested in a lighter piston and a modern (metric) piston ring package; than worry so much about Forged v. Hypereutectic. Going to a Hyper piston may also save you some cash - to be put towards a spec camshaft

Rods: If there aren't new fasteners included, or the rod caps were just tossed in a box; forget them. Your engine builder may very well have a set of small journal rods refurbished. Remember; pre 68, you need SMALL JOURNAL rods to fit the crank without modifications
If your rods need more than a little re-work, get an aftermarket rod such as the Eagle SIR. They're less than $300 a set, and come with cap screws. Average weight is ~590 grams. These may need a little profiling and you will definitely need to send your reciprocating assembly out for spin balancing. But for $37.50 a rod, they have their place.

Carb: For an era correct hot rod; you need a Holley 3310. Yes its 750cfm, yes its overkill...but its a damn good carb. Get the vac. secondary model.

Heads: Profiler has great heads, they're also used as the house-brand head for one of the parts houses (I believe Jegs) You can also get Chad Speier to build you a set of his "econo-ports" for reasonable money as well. Problem with the heads: The jegs heads will say JEGS on the end. They don't look "era correct". You can certainly have the manufacturers logo milled off the heads and lightly sandblasted to restore a cast appearance

 

[bfreeasme2]

Autogear, I talk to you back in April, I live in Cortland.

I bought a M-21 Muncie for my car 1963-64 came out of a 1963 impala ss.

I know before we were talking about gears for an M-20. What do you recommend for this tranny instead?

My hubby was saying the forged pistons are better. he has a 396 bored .050 over set up for bracket racing in his Chevelle. I am not looking to go that extreme. I think I will probably ended up buying the hypers. Although I have heard some talk of them not handling above 6k rpms very well. Just looking for little more info in that spectrum.

TechInspector spec's several things out except for valves springs and such on the heads to handle the roller cam that I have.

My husband thinks we can reuse the original connecting rods, that is where I need some opinions on that.

 

[bfreeasme2]

I am definitely leaning towards the Profilers, whether or not bare or assembled is my question. I have read some great things about them. And in house Jegs are profilers? which ones?

 

[techinspector1]

MSD ignitions. ( looking for favorites on these)

Personally, I'd prefer to use a modified HEI, set up by DUI....
GM Street/Strip DUI Distributors « Performance Distributors Performance Distributors
They even offer a dizzy with a mechanical tach drive, just like the good old days.....They will set the dizzy up for you, based on you giving them your combination.....:thumbup:

Is there an advantage, that is worth the additional cost, to buy forged pistons instead of Hypereutectic? Flat tops with two valve reliefs.
Speed-Pro L2165F30-8 : Speed-Pro Power Forged Pistons - Set of 8 - Flat Top - 4.030" Bore - Chevy - 327 $365
Sealed Power Hypereutectic Flat Top 2 Valve Reliefs Piston | Northern Auto Parts about $200

There is nothing wrong with hypers for a street driver. If you were going to race the car and beat on it, forged slugs might be to your advantage. Or if you would just feel better telling others that you used forged pistons, go for it. Can't hurt, although forged will require more piston to wall clearance, so will be a little noisy when the motor is cold. The main thing that you want to pay attention to is the compression height of the piston (CH). That's the measurement from the centerline of the wrist pin to the crown of the piston. When you're building a motor, you want to add your stack together to see where the piston crown will end up in relation to the block deck, so that you know whether or not to cut the block decks to set the squish properly.

Let's go back to square one for a moment....
The blueprint dimension block deck height, which is the measurement from the centerline of the main bearing bore to the block decks where the heads bolt on is 9.025". That does not mean that your block will measure this. It could have been machined incorrectly at the factory in 1962 or it could have been cut many times before by previous owners before you got the block.

So, what you want to do is measure the block deck height before you buy pistons. Let's say that you measure it and it's 9.025". Your job will be to gather a stack of parts that will fill the block and give you the proper piston deck height (measurement from the piston crown to the block deck where the heads bolt on, with the piston at top dead center). Also spoken of as "how far the piston is down in the bore".

Now, let's say your block measures 8.980" because someone in the past cut the block decks for "rebuilder pistons", which have less compression distance. If your stack of parts measures 9.000" (1.675" piston compression height, 5.7" rod and 1.625" crank radius), the motor will look pretty silly with the piston crowns popped out of the block decks by 0.020". At that point, you'd need a 0.060" thick head gasket to set the squish at 0.040".
Anyway, measure the block deck height before you do anything else, so you know where to go from here.

Can I use the existing 1962 327 connecting rods with either one of these pistons? ( Condition is great)

Those rods have been through millions of cycles and without X-raying them, you will never know if they are ready to pull apart or not. Usually, if you're on a budget rebuild, you would magnaflux them for cracks, install fresh bolts and nuts, resize the bottom end and install the pistons on them.
If you do consider replacing them, pay attention to what ap72 said about using different piston compression height pistons with longer than standard rods. Keep in mind that your rods are the small journal diameter (2.000"), not the later 2.100" journals that fit onto a 350 crank. So, a run-of-the-mill 350 rod will not work, must be the 2.000" journal. I might be tempted to spring for a set of Eagle rods.....
Eagle SIR5700SPLW Eagle SIR I-Beam Connecting Rods - Free Shipping on All Orders @ JEGS

I am planning to buy the Pro-filer heads set up with springs for hydraulic roller cam with a lift of .550 will this work?
SBC 23 Degree Cylinder Head, 11/32 Guides & Steel Seats
Intake Port Size: 180cc Intake Ports
Chamber Size: 64cc As Cast Chamber
Spark Plug Orientation: Straight Plug
Intake Valves: 2.02/1.600 Valve Job
Spring Package: Standard .650 Lift 1.525 Dual Springs, Steel Retainers, Keepers Assembled
Casting Style: Standard Cooling
Item Number: 176 $1090 a set.

Same heads I would choose for a hot street 327. :thumbup:

Please let me know what rod I should be getting and rockers.

Can't tell if the heads come with pushrod guide plates installed, but you will need them. Rocker arms with a roller bearing trunnion will do the best job of freeing up horsepower and lowering operating oil temps. I like Scorpion.....
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/scc-scp1000bl/overview/
You might also use a self-aligning rocker without using guide plates....
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/scc-scp1035bl/overview/

Which flow better? The Profilers or the Pro-comps? I have heard all heads out of the box need to be torn down and cleaned up, is this true?

I'd buy Pro-filers before I'd buy Pro-Comp. Skip White has a new head that I think is supposed to replace the Pro-Comp, called NKB heads (new kid on the block).

And last but least, recommended rebuild kit ( gaskets, etc) to go with these setups and to get the appropriate squish of .040.

Squish will be a function of the block deck height, stack height, piston compression height and gasket thickness. Begin by measuring the block.

Also Carb preferences?

A matter of personal choice. With a 4-speed, you can use either a vacuum-secondaries 4-bbl or a mechanical secondaries 4-bbl.

 

[bfreeasme2]

@TechInspector,

As ALWAYS, your reply is exactly what I am looking for.

Getting ready to send my stuff out soon, Just trying to work out some of the details, ( the internet can be more misleading than helpful at times). I have a $3000-4000 budget to work with so...

Profilers are definitely worthy of this build and the price is still $400 under AFR heads.
While I believe the Procomps are just the same as any other ebay special no name head. Hit or miss at best? And I would rather spend the little extra and get it right the first time , than throw my money away for bad. Just needed to back myself up on this one to the hubby, as I was detailing my findings on the Profilers and he was trying to come up with cheaper alternatives. I believe the Pro comps reputation has been damaged drastically since its heydays that he remembers. And besides, I know a little about the quality of aluminum and steel that comes out of China, Questionable and often rejected by our Machine shop for not meeting the ASTM or AISI requirements. I am sure I will be attacked later by a Pro comp rep. LOL!

So Hypereutectic it is. ( set of rings to go with them?)
New connecting rods as well. ( will be ordered after block has been checked and decked at the shop) I will look into the scorpion rockers. 1.5 or 1.6?

I will investigate your recommendations thoroughly ( Love it!)

Thank you!

 

[techinspector1]

So Hypereutectic it is. ( set of rings to go with them?)

Plasma Moly, either standard gap rings if they meet the gap specified for the pistons and the application or Plasma Moly, file to fit if you want to know everything is right, because you did it yourself.....
http://www.fme-cat.com/docs/1110.pdf
Pay very close attention to the piston manufacturer's recommendations for ring end gap.

New connecting rods as well. ( will be ordered after block has been checked and decked at the shop) I will look into the scorpion rockers. 1.5 or 1.6?

If you were in a competition racing environment, you might want to use a 1.6 rocker that would give you max valve lift, at the expense of valvetrain parts perhaps not lasting as long as they might with less aggressive rockers. For a street motor, I see no use in using anything but 1.5 rockers. I have seen only about 10-12 hp difference between 1.5 and 1.6 anyway, not enough to worry about the additional stress and wear in my view. I have also seen a couple of instances where the motor made less power with 1.6 rockers.

Going away for the weekend, will talk with you again on Monday.

 

[bfreeasme2]

I know I am probably going into more detail than the average joe who sends their motor out for a rebuild. But, I like to know the details, the engineering behind it, Cool stuff to me! yeah I know I am weird for a girl, but hey that what makes me ... ME!

Also I have noted a lack of options at retailers for a small journal 327 build, in comparison to say a 350. This is what is making it a little trickier for parts selection.

What do you thing about the 1-3/4 long tubes vs the 1-5/8?

 

[ap72]

26126716 or 26126716A for a budget 6.125" rod from Scat or
6612520QLSA for a rod that you can rev safely to 7500+ RPM.

A little pricier than the standard 2.100" journal stuff but that is to be expected.

 

[AutoGear]

1-5/8 is plenty for a 327 in a street car.

With respect to your gearbox; early 60s stuff is weaker than post 1965. 1" countershaft dia is important for strength. Early gearboxes also use bronze synchro rings without a supporting shoulder, and can crack if you really wail on them

Ideally, you'd bore the case out to 1" dia c/shaft; and convert to the M20 ratios, which give you a numerically taller 1st gear (2.52 vs 2.20) This will give adequate acceleration with a 3.55 rear and darn good acceleration with a 3.73. The M20 conversion is an input gear, cluster gear and an overhaul kit. Assuming everything looks good inside

 

[ericnova72]

If you haven't already bought the Howard's hydro roller lifters from Summit, You can get them on sale right now from Competition Products, who shares the building in Oshkosh, Wisconsin with Howards(I believe they are "sister" companies).

Competition Products - Performance Engine Parts, Racing Engine Parts and Accessories.

Good deals on anything valvetrain related from them, pushrods, guideplates, studs, springs etc.

Hyper pistons you chose are fine, ...Forged is a stronger way to go though, if you want to.

New rods may not be a bad choice at all, as you would want to add better bolts(ARP brand) and then pay to resize the rod bore on your old stock rods, and that would amount to 3/4 of the price of just buying them new from Eagle. I absolutely would not re-use the stock rods without the bolt upgrade and a resizing, if you re-use them consider this a mandatory operation, just like the old days before Eagle or similar was around. Nobody would ever trust old stock rod bolts.

I don't feel you really need the expense of plasma moly rings, just a standard moly faced ring would be plenty as you are not racing it, and not planning really high rpm(7000+) or nitrous use. I really can't see the need for file-fitting the rings at this performance level either, as you are not chasing the last 3 HP available in order to win a title, pre-gapped will serve you just fine if the machine shop bores/hones the block correctly for your chosen piston.

Profiler is a good head choice, better than ProComp by a good margin. A decent budget head would be Assault, or the NKB that White's is selling, or ProMaxx...all better than ProComp at this time.

1-5/8" is plenty of header, get them ceramic coated if you want them to stay looking new for a long time.

Scorpion has good rockers, Howard's does also.

MSD ignition box is not mandatory, a good HEI will work just fine but may be tight at the firewall in your Camaro, and I'm assuming you don't want to bash that area of the firewall back to clear an HEI if necessary, so you may want to look at an MSD small cap ready-to-run type distributor(same diameter as an old points type stock distributor) over the big cap HEI. Something for you to investigate before you buy.

If you really want the period performance look, it has to be a Holley carb, the mentioned #3310 750 cfm vacuum is a good choice.