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I see a lot of people complaining about their carberators has anyone though of After market EFI systems? It’s much less flawed and you have this really cool 4 barrel paper weight for your desk in the shop.By the way you can always go back.About $1500 with a new tank, pump,filters and carb.Versus something you have to tune and may never tune properly.Thoughts?
 

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Quadrajets can be sorted to run very effectively. There will probably be folks on here wanting to take it off your hands. I'd take it but I'm good for the moment. Cliff Ruggles uses a '77 Quadrajet on his '73 Ventura that runs in the low 11's and is his daily driver.
 

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Q jet for the win. EFI.... Meh pricey, fussy always needing attention like an insecure girlfriend. Not into that
 

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Moving to General Rodding forum. The Introduction forum is not for tech discussion
 

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Run, run away fast from EFi kits, at least sniper from my experience. I have been fighting with a sniper unit for 2 years. Today I just got a return label to ship my 2nd unit back for warranty. Hindsight 20/20 I wish, I would have stayed with the qjet, in fact if this replacement unit doesn’t work out. I will probably ship the carb to Cliff for complete rebuild and set up and remove the efi.
 

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Another vote for carb. Does not have to be a QuadraJet. The scenario presented in the initial post is not based in reality.
 

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i mean, if you're into FI and comfortable with it, then fine---go for it. Unfortunately, i've been seeing a lot of complaints regarding Holley sniper. Edlebrock Pro-Flo seems to be a decent kit. The Fast/Ez-efi kits, people seem happy with.

You didn't say which engine you have? i'm not sure which engines came in 77 gp----400, 455, 350? But look into GM TBI---pretty simple and reliable.

Quadrajets, in particular, are not difficult to tune once you understand them. (judging from my other threads, that may sound like a contradiction, but there's more to the story---stay tuned....) But if you want simpler there's always the holleys and clones.

i don't know.......it seems like the only advantage of a throttle body type EFI system has over a carb is that it's self tuning.

Now, multi-point or direct injection might be a different story.....
 

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Do you have complaints about your carb? A factory carb (such as a Q-Jet) can work beautifully, if maintained, tuned, or maybe even repaired (butterfly shafts, for instance).
So what do you expect from EFI, why do you ask the question?
Keep in mind that on this forum, many people have always lived with carbs and do not really like EFI, so some answers are a bit skewed... EFI can be (is) very easy to live with, self-tune, diagnostic codes... But it is different.
It also depends on you, what knowledge you have, are you comfortable with electronics, wiring...
 

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Many people complain about the things in which they are not familure with or understand.
 

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One thing I have learned is that, these after market kits are electrically sensitive units.
You must make sure they have a clean electrical system and lots of grounds.
One big improvement over the years as cars have become more electronic everything, is the alternator. They produce more clean power at start up then anything from say 85 and older.
Putting a system on a 1980 camaro like I have, has taught me a lot about, electrical noise issues and causing problems on the ecm.
 

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I have a 1977 Ford truck that I installed a FITEC unit on. Nothing but trouble. I have a 1946 Ford with a Chevy 502 big block that I installed a Edelbrock Pro Flo system on. Same thing, only different . I am seriously thinking about returning to carburators on both.
 

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I'm on several hot rodding forums and this is the first I've heard of systematic problems with aftermarket EFI. I have plans to install one myself, but now.... Please tell me something about the problems you have encountered and how you corrected them. Honestly, until now I've heard nothing but good news about them. I have a Holley 680 double pumper on my 396 that is undrivable until the engine is warmed to full operating temp most days. The choke works correctly and I've even had several speed shop techs look at it and pronounce it perfectly tuned and normally operating. To which I say bull. So I've been planning on swapping to EFI for awhile now.
 

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Well, on the Fi-Tec on my 1977 Ford pickup, the problem has something to do with engine temperature I think. It runs OK until it reaches about 170 degrees. Then something changes and it will barely keep running. It has stalled on me an almost caused me to have to call a tow. I have reset it several times to original specs ,but it always reverts.
On the '46 Ford with chevy 502, it has a Pro Flo from Edelbrock. It wants to run extremely rich. At the suggestion of a Edlebrock tech I installed a separate O2 sensor with readout so I can actually see what the engine is doing. Using the pendant that allows me to tune it in real time I can get the numbers pretty close to where I want them, and the engine runs great. I save the settings, but the next time I drive the car it is back to it's bad old self. So I haven't solved either one of my problems. Edelbrock say "buy a newer unit, they work better". I don't think so. This was a almost $4K investment at the time. Carb,s are starting to look better all the time.
 

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1st sniper stopped working in drive way before I even got to drive it, Holley replaced it with new.
2nd unit (new replacement, that I just sent back for warranty) wouldn’t stabilize and would fall flat on face at dead punch. After a 1000 miles I hired a Holley trained technician to finish the tuning (because of dead punch issue) he is one, who said unit was junk.
He told me, he had to return 4 units once, before he got a good one, on one of his projects.
Look at Holleys forms, you will see all kinds of issues.

Holley recommends 8.5 mm plug wires because units are sensitive to electrical noise.
From what I have learned, I believe they are sensitive to voltage changes as well.
I haven’t gotten one running clean on car yet.
Working with tech to tune unit we moved many wires around the isolate them to rule out electrical noise as an issue.
I even installed faritte magnet filters on alternator wires. I also ran extra grounds.

As I said above newer cars have clean electrical systems, because everything is so sensitive. Just last week wife’s 2017 Terrian battery started to go bad, it pissed off radio display, new battery and everything was back to normal.

Now your 396, my first 3 questions would be 1) what cam? 2) what intake 3) cruiser or race car.

Big cams can cause cold idle issues until warm. But the intake manifold could also cause cold run issues. Many people put air gap intakes on street cruisers and they are really for the track.
Air gap intakes keeps intake cold a long time until engine compartment really warms up.

another issue that can cause cold warm up problems is what thermostat is run. A lot of people run a 160 stat, because it makes more hp, but most street cars really need 180 or 190.
These help engine warm up faster, gets intake warmer faster and under hood temperatures up faster.
Fuel doesn’t like to atomize in cold start settings thus the need to warm up engine as fast as possible, choke on carb will richen fuel mix but will not atomize it when cold
 

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Read the fine print first, a lot of these self learning systems get touchy as the cam gets bigger or you creep into LSA’s under 110 degrees. Most makers of these systems have a disclaimer that big cams may require their direct support to tune them or tell you where the untenable limits are.

We tested these things for years on my truck and other vehicles. When I retired I put an Edelbrock AVS on my truck. It just reduces the tuning problem to simple and not costly in time or dollars to deal with; the trade is not as good fuel economy and a little larger contribution to global warming. That set against it mostly sits in the garage anymore rather than running a few hundred miles everyday so probably the planet is ahead.

Bogie
 

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Qjet fanboi here.

Of all the engines I've built, exactly zero were converted to EFI. It's been a while since I've modded a Qjet, but I used to be known as "The Carb Whisperer" at the shop.
 

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1st sniper stopped working in drive way before I even got to drive it, Holley replaced it with new.
2nd unit (new replacement, that I just sent back for warranty) wouldn’t stabilize and would fall flat on face at dead punch. After a 1000 miles I hired a Holley trained technician to finish the tuning (because of dead punch issue) he is one, who said unit was junk.
He told me, he had to return 4 units once, before he got a good one, on one of his projects.
Look at Holleys forms, you will see all kinds of issues.

Holley recommends 8.5 mm plug wires because units are sensitive to electrical noise.
From what I have learned, I believe they are sensitive to voltage changes as well.
I haven’t gotten one running clean on car yet.
Working with tech to tune unit we moved many wires around the isolate them to rule out electrical noise as an issue.
I even installed faritte magnet filters on alternator wires. I also ran extra grounds.

As I said above newer cars have clean electrical systems, because everything is so sensitive. Just last week wife’s 2017 Terrian battery started to go bad, it pissed off radio display, new battery and everything was back to normal.

Now your 396, my first 3 questions would be 1) what cam? 2) what intake 3) cruiser or race car.

Big cams can cause cold idle issues until warm. But the intake manifold could also cause cold run issues. Many people put air gap intakes on street cruisers and they are really for the track.
Air gap intakes keeps intake cold a long time until engine compartment really warms up.

another issue that can cause cold warm up problems is what thermostat is run. A lot of people run a 160 stat, because it makes more hp, but most street cars really need 180 or 190.
These help engine warm up faster, gets intake warmer faster and under hood temperatures up faster.
Fuel doesn’t like to atomize in cold start settings thus the need to warm up engine as fast as possible, choke on carb will richen fuel mix but will not atomize it when cold
1. The cam was in when I bought the car and I have no idea what it is. There is no lope at idle. Efforts to contact the previous owner who built the engine have been unsuccessfull. 2. The intake is an Edlebrock Performer
1st sniper stopped working in drive way before I even got to drive it, Holley replaced it with new.
2nd unit (new replacement, that I just sent back for warranty) wouldn’t stabilize and would fall flat on face at dead punch. After a 1000 miles I hired a Holley trained technician to finish the tuning (because of dead punch issue) he is one, who said unit was junk.
He told me, he had to return 4 units once, before he got a good one, on one of his projects.
Look at Holleys forms, you will see all kinds of issues.

Holley recommends 8.5 mm plug wires because units are sensitive to electrical noise.
From what I have learned, I believe they are sensitive to voltage changes as well.
I haven’t gotten one running clean on car yet.
Working with tech to tune unit we moved many wires around the isolate them to rule out electrical noise as an issue.
I even installed faritte magnet filters on alternator wires. I also ran extra grounds.

As I said above newer cars have clean electrical systems, because everything is so sensitive. Just last week wife’s 2017 Terrian battery started to go bad, it pissed off radio display, new battery and everything was back to normal.

Now your 396, my first 3 questions would be 1) what cam? 2) what intake 3) cruiser or race car.

Big cams can cause cold idle issues until warm. But the intake manifold could also cause cold run issues. Many people put air gap intakes on street cruisers and they are really for the track.
Air gap intakes keeps intake cold a long time until engine compartment really warms up.

another issue that can cause cold warm up problems is what thermostat is run. A lot of people run a 160 stat, because it makes more hp, but most street cars really need 180 or 190.
These help engine warm up faster, gets intake warmer faster and under hood temperatures up faster.
Fuel doesn’t like to atomize in cold start settings thus the need to warm up engine as fast as possible, choke on carb will richen fuel mix but will not atomize it when cold
I don't know what cam is installed. Attempts to contact the former owner who built the motor have failed. It's a roller, but not too big as, once the thing heats sufficiently, it idles very smoothly and is well behaved on the street. Mostly, anyway. The intake is an Edlebrock Performer, not an air gap of any stripe. The car is a cruiser and the thermostat appears to be 180. Engine temp is a consistent 183 in all weather, cold or hot. So I can find no explanation for the rough idle. It almost sounds like a misfire at times until things smooth out. I may test to insure all cylinders are firing when it's acting up. I suppose it could be ignition, regardless of what the techs say. Doc
 

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Well Doc, I agree with your thoughts, seeing you confirmed many of my questions or thoughts.
Sounds like it’s time to start with the basics, maybe a compression test or leak down just for sanity check. Then inspect ignition system, the wires and stuff.
You know one time I had a car, that keep stranding Mom, it turned out the rubber boot on the ignition module had dried out and had hair line cracks in it. It would act up here and there. I finally found the problem when I took a spray bottle with water in it and started spraying ignition system down a little at a time. I hit one spot and it killed the car. I have also done this in the past to check plug wires, it helps to do it in the dark, you will see spark jumping off wet wires pretty easy.

just some quick thinking
 

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Well Doc, I agree with your thoughts, seeing you confirmed many of my questions or thoughts.
Sounds like it’s time to start with the basics, maybe a compression test or leak down just for sanity check. Then inspect ignition system, the wires and stuff.
You know one time I had a car, that keep stranding Mom, it turned out the rubber boot on the ignition module had dried out and had hair line cracks in it. It would act up here and there. I finally found the problem when I took a spray bottle with water in it and started spraying ignition system down a little at a time. I hit one spot and it killed the car. I have also done this in the past to check plug wires, it helps to do it in the dark, you will see spark jumping off wet wires pretty easy.

just some quick thinking
OK, thanks. I've used the look in the dark method to troubleshoot ignition wiring in the past, plug wires in particular, with good success, so I know what you mean. I once found a porous intake manifold by spraying water on it in sections until I found the offending area. I fixed it with JB Weld because I was too broke to afford a new intake manifold. When the car gets back from the shop, I'll take a look and see if I can find anything. Thanks for your input and the information. Doc
 
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