[inspiron]

I have had violent urges to biuld a hotrod for years, But I lack exprence, skill and most of all money. I was wondering if it would be possible to pull a GM V6 out of a front wheel drive junk yard car, and biuld a frame around it and placeing the engnine, trans and all the orther good stuf in the back behind the seats and haveing it steer from the front wheels?

How hard do you think it would be to do this?

How much cold it cost if it was biult with just enough parts to pass inspection (nj) and at least run.

How fast would it be?

What kind of probloms could there be biulding and or driveing it?

Do you think it is worth doing?

 

[DeStang]

people do it with sand rails all the time.

its not easy, fast, or cheap to build one of these and if done half assed it could be a real danger to your health. search around, a while back a company was selling sand rails ready for grand national motors.

 

[matt167]

have custom solid axles made. fabricate the front cradle in as part of your frame, then you use the car's struts also.

 

[BillyShope]

General Motors has already done this. They called it the Fiero.

Seriously, the Fiero is (was) based on the use of a FWD package driving the rear wheels. I am absolutely amazed that the hot rod community never picked up on this simple trick. So long as you use the ENTIRE assembly from the FWD car, the only half-way tricky part will be the trailing links to the uprights. And, you might get lucky and this could amount to little more than swapping left and right side components. In fact, this would almost certainly be possible with little, if any, modification.

Rather than start from scratch, why not use an old VW Bug as your platform? Or Fiat 600? The latter would definitely mean shortening axles and suspension arms, but, compared to other projects described in this forum, this is still small potatoes.

 

[inspiron]

Thanks for the help everybody! :thumbup:

Rather than start from scratch, why not use an old VW Bug as your platform? Or Fiat 600? The latter would definitely mean shortening axles and suspension arms, but, compared to other projects described in this forum, this is still small potatoes.

I would like to use a VW bug, I will definaly have to consider that, the only problom is the stock engine is weak and I don't know if I can soup it up on the cheap But what I don't know could fill a warehouse so I will have to look into that.

Does anyone have any links to sites that show people doing this kinda stuff?


Thanks for your help! :thumbup:

-mike

 

[kenseth17]

I really wouldn't call the fwd 3.8 weak as far as stock motors go. I had one in my 1987 bonneville and it had a little get up and go (150 hp stock thing mine was rated), so a small car like a bug I imagine it could move pretty well. The engine has roller rockers. There are also supercharged versions from the sse's, but they would go for a lot more bucks. And they are pretty dang reliable engines, gm really improved them. Look into swaps for fieros. Believe they might make kits to put 350's and toronado transaxles into these as well as many people using 3.8 liters. A lot of kit cars are based on the fiero and vw platforms so check what some of these guys have done also.

 

[luckyfasteddie]

rear engine pu

I am almost done with one. cab 39 chevy PU, frame home built, droped 32 ford front axle with vega box and cross steering , speedway 36 " hair pins, new king pins spindels and disk brakes ,38 chevy car grill, streched 39 truck hood,rear engine out of a 1988 Fiero, has 5 spd manual tranny, put new hubs ,struts , rotors and brakes on ,front wheels 16x41/2 ford ,with 500 x16 Firestone tires, rear wheels 18x41/2 chevy, with 700 x 18 Firestone tires, home made bed sides and tail gate , replaced Fiero rear springs with coil overs, alum bomber seats with blanket seat covers, harness and computer nave been reworked for my application. We plan on fireing the engine up this week, then a test drive to see if was worth it.Thinking we might have to add some kind of weight to front will have to play with that. Maby the reason you have never seen one is that it dont work I will know by this time next week.

 

[inspiron]

I really wouldn't call the fwd 3.8 weak as far as stock motors go. I had one in my 1987 bonneville and it had a little get up and go (150 hp stock thing mine was rated), so a small car like a bug I imagine it could move pretty well. The engine has roller rockers. There are also supercharged versions from the sse's, but they would go for a lot more bucks. And they are pretty dang reliable engines, gm really improved them. Look into swaps for fieros. Believe they might make kits to put 350's and toronado transaxles into these as well as many people using 3.8 liters. A lot of kit cars are based on the fiero and vw platforms so check what some of these guys have done also.

I was saying the VW engine would be weak, my brother owned two 3.1 liter cars that were two tones each and the engines put out plenty of power so a 3.8 would be even better. You are right they are good engines.

I will look into thoes toronoado tranaxels and ferio swaps! thanks! :thumbup:

I am almost done with one. cab 39 chevy PU, frame home built, droped 32 ford front axle with vega box and cross steering , speedway 36 " hair pins, new king pins spindels and disk brakes ,38 chevy car grill, streched 39 truck hood,rear engine out of a 1988 Fiero, has 5 spd manual tranny, put new hubs ,struts , rotors and brakes on ,front wheels 16x41/2 ford ,with 500 x16 Firestone tires, rear wheels 18x41/2 chevy, with 700 x 18 Firestone tires, home made bed sides and tail gate , replaced Fiero rear springs with coil overs, alum bomber seats with blanket seat covers, harness and computer nave been reworked for my application. We plan on fireing the engine up this week, then a test drive to see if was worth it.Thinking we might have to add some kind of weight to front will have to play with that. Maby the reason you have never seen one is that it dont work I will know by this time next week.

Cool! Let me know what happens!

 

[cabowabo]

3.8 v-6 ford sho motor

in a sand rail one dude at ford dealer has one built its awesome

 

[ChevelleSS_LS6]

I've seen a Northstar in a Fiero... I think traction would be an issue, but smoking tires at will would be fun :thumbup: and expensive and get me in trouble :nono:

 

[Jake_Dragon]

I have a SBC 350 in my Fiero.
Google is your friend if you want a kit, just search for V8 Fiero
Traction isnt as bad as you would think, all of the engine is right in front of the wheels so it has better traction then you would think for that much power. Not that I cant smoke the tires but it only happens when I want it to.
Now the Cadillacs front wheel drive share the same bolt pattern as the Fiero so its cheaper to put one in then a SBC that needs an adapter.
Prices have been going up for "good" Fieros but there are still enough deals that its not way out of line.
Dont start with junk or you will end up with junk.

 

[farna]

matt167 and luckyfasteddie have the right idea! The sand rails are mostly REAR engine, not MID -- at least the pics posted are.

I'd drop the engine/trans/cradle from any FWD car and weld rectangular tubing to the front built like a model T frame. You can then use a typical hot rod straight axle, a Mustang II setup, or even a VW bug front axle. I wouldn't worry about engine size. Stick a Track T bucket and nose on it and it will be half the weight of almost any donor car. Won't matter if it's a four or six cylinder. You will want to stick with an automatic trans though. You can just add a longer shift cable and be fine. Converting a FWD shifter to rear engine would be difficult at best. I don't know what manual Fiero shift linkage looks like, but unless it's cable operated in some way it won't be easily adaptable. Besides, finding a FWD American vehicle with a manual trans is a bit tough, autos are easy. You can clean the engine up, or mount a turtle deck over it. I've been thinking about building something along the lines of a "Super 7" except incorporating a mid engine, similar to the above. To many projects right now though!

 

[BillyShope]

If you don't want to start with an old VW Bug, you can always use the James Dean car as a starting platform:

http://www.thunderranch.com/550.html

 

[Jake_Dragon]

The standard Fiero tranny uses cables for the shifter.

 

[luckyfasteddie]

Dragon is right it is done with cables, i chose a manul tranny so I could tow the thing .Got the harness on today and should be starting it tomorrow.

 

[Toysrme]

You could definately do the swap.
I work & play on Toyota's all day long tho. So can I interject a thought for you...
Doing an MR2 i4, to Toyota v6 swap. They've become relatively common in the last few years.
You only fab one small, simple engine mount to bolt the engine & transmission in, or engine to stock transmission (If an MR2 turbo).
The onyl other physical modification is if using a transmission from a Camry platform, you use a hybrid MR2, and camry axle (Half and half).
All of the engines after 1992 are grossly over-engineered.
All Toyota v6's share bellhousing, flywheel/flexplate patterns, and engine mounting patterns.
The engines are *grossly* over engineered.
Toyota has yet to make a v6 for North America that doesn't make 90% of it's peak torque off idle, and 95% of peak torque by 2000rpm. (Nissan is also big with v6 torque) Dont confuse it with Honda...
What you wind up with is an easy to find, reliable, and CHEAP swap.
It's an instant torque curve on 2200-2600lb go-karts.
The Fiero competed with the MR2, and "Z" cars, it only lasted 4 years. The MR2 is gone, but atleast it made it '84-05!

You can use any MR, but if you go with a second gen mr2 turbo (3s-gte) You get to start with an i4 that'll hold 300bhp, maybe 400 on a good day. Then when you're ready to start the swap, you can sell the engine & drivetrain for over what some of the v6 swaps cost to begin with.

I'm not knocking the 3.8L turbo, or the Fiero. My grandfather owned a mint Buick Grand National until 3 years ago. But having worked on alot of things & knowing what I know...
I'd take an MR2 v6 swap any day above a 3.8L Fiero swap. Lighter, faster, better???? Maybe. I think so.

You've got the old VZ blocks that are just ungodly overbuilt on bottom making 450-550bhp without rebuilds. The next step all-aluminum MZ blocks are lighter weight & do 375bhp without rebuilds. And the newest generation GR blocks are lighter still, but make >400bhp (Toyota aftermaket moves slow so... We're hopeful they start topping out around 550 also). Forged steel rods, piston oil squirters. A host of nice features. Take the 3.5L 2gr-fe out of the new Camry platform. 272bhp/254ft-lb from a 359lb engine. That's neat.

Better yet. Even on older engines. Because the v6's tend to have so little load for their torque output they average over 30mpg combined if you keep your foot out of them.

 

[Toysrme]

Afew quick example pictures I put together for else where I'm just copying over:

Here's a 3mz-fe bottom end out of a Sienna with 1mz-fe heads & upper intake manifold out of an Avalon sitting on a lower intake manifold from a 97 Camry.

Did I mention it's stuffed into a gen2 MR2.

Here's a 94-96 1mz-fe into a gen1 MR2

1mz-fe into a gen2 MR2. Brad Bell's Second.

2gr-fe out of an '05 Avalon STUFFED into an MR-S

Brad Bell's first MR2 v6 swap.
1mz-fe w' TRD S/C swapped nto a gen2 MR2. Brad Bell's First

Killing everything @ Willow Springs

FYI that is the 2004 USCC champion yellow MR2.

 

[Toysrme]

A 3vz-fe gen2 MR2 swap with a wide body kit. And a W2A intercooled single bank turbo.

Anyways... If you're just looking for go-kart esque sports car with lots of torque. Hard to beat an MR2 v6 swap. Pretty impossible to beat them if you want mid-engined RWD.

 

[Toysrme]

Like yall care, but I got asked in a PM about Toyota engine codes. They're actually easy to read & understand. Only Nissan codes are easier. For Toyota:
The number is the basic generation of an engine block family
The proceeding letters are the block family
If there is a dash, the letters following the dash denote the general information of the engine. I.E. Commonly you would see:
E = EFI & ignition
F = low angle economy head porting & cams for a wide powerband
G = high angle, higher power head porting & cams
Z = supercharged
T = turbocharged,
So say a 3vz-fe would be the third generation of the VZ block family. Economy heads & cams with fuel injection

Unfortunately, the hellaciously strong UZ Toyota/Lexus v8's will NOT fit in an MR2. They do fit, but because their bellhousing does not mate to any other useful Toyota transverse transmission. By the time you put a bellhousing adapter on them they're too long.
The famous Toyota JZ family of v6's will also not fit. (i.e. 3.0L 2jz-gte twin turbo supra, or imported 2.5L 1jz-gtte's) They are far too long.
Don't ask. They won't work.

 

[Jake_Dragon]

http://www.v8mr2.com/

I wouldnt call it better, just different.