Hot Rod Forum banner
1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
75 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi everyone,
Well yesterday I just sold my 1967 firebird after having it for 7 years. I just bought a 1980 Camaro Z28. I am trying not to spend money if I dont have to so I will let you know what I have already. The car is completely done minus the engine. It had a 383 but it was knocking and the guy kept it. He gave me a rebuilt turbo 350 trans, 3000rpm stall converter, 4.11 posi rearend, traction bars, subframe ties, holley 750cfm carb, trickflow intake, headers, harmonic balancer, radiator and water pump, march billet pulleys, all off of the 383 stroker, all parts have about 30 miles on them. My question is, what type of build do I need to keep the 3000 rpm stall converter as I dont want to buy another since I have a brand new one already. I want to be able to drive the car on the weekends and maybe take it to work once in awhile. I work 1 hour away, about 50 miles and take a highway. I can cruise it at 55-60 easily. I do not plan on racing the car or taking it to the drag It will mostly go to car shows and just to drive it around. Even though I dont get on my cars too much, I like to know the power is there. What buildup should I get as I am looking to buy it as soon as I sell my rebuilt Pontiac 455 that I will be listing on ebay. Thanks Peter J.
 

·
WFO
Joined
·
5,030 Posts
petes67bird said:
What buildup should I get as I am looking to buy it as soon as I sell my rebuilt Pontiac 455 that I will be listing on ebay. Thanks Peter J.
I don't thing building a car around a 3K RPM TC is the way to do it, but whatever.

What's wrong w/using the 455 (other than the TC) in the Camaro?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,018 Posts
pretty simple. First build a 10 to 10.5:1 cr engine, install a comcam 292H, get some dart 200cc iron eagle heads (64 or 70cc depending on pistons you have).

run 20 degrees of initial timing and 36 total.

use zddp oil additive with your cam. www.zddplus.com.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
9,993 Posts
cobalt327 said:
I don't thing building a car around a 3K RPM TC is the way to do it, but whatever.

What's wrong w/using the 455 (other than the TC) in the Camaro?

I don't think building around a stall conv. is the best move either- HOWEVER a 3,000 stall is usaully what most people with a dual purpose car opt for as it is mild enough to still be streetable- so its not a bad thing at all.

You need to decide a few things first though- what displacement, what heads would you like to use (or atleast a price range for heads), what do you want to set your redline at, what type of cam would you like to use, and besides stall is there anything else you would like from the engine? (milage, vacuum, sound, etc.) Also, what type of fuel do you want to use.
 

·
WFO
Joined
·
5,030 Posts
ap72 said:
I don't think building around a stall conv. is the best move either- HOWEVER a 3,000 stall is usaully what most people with a dual purpose car opt for as it is mild enough to still be streetable- so its not a bad thing at all.
Trying to build an entire vehicle around a "3000 rpm stall converter" of unknown pedigree is a fool's venture, IMO.

To begin with, there is no such thing as a "3,000 stall" TC.

A TC that'll stall @ 3K RPM behind my BBC will certainly NOT stall @ 3K RPM behind your 305. And vice versa.

The converter was given to the OP by the previous owner- there's no way to know whether or not the TC would have stalled anything even close to that behind the 383 that it was supposedly mated to- THAT 383 didn't make it out of the drive way before being terminated.

OTOH, there's nothing saying that a combo can't be concocted that will require a 3000 RPM stall TC. But I would not presume THAT TC to be the one that will provide the 3 K stall- I'd leave that up to a reputable TC company to come up with- given all of the engine and vehicle parameters.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
75 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Hi everyone, thanks for the replies. Sorry I work weird hours so I never got a chance to check this earlier. As for the car, the car was owned by my best friend for the past 19 years, I am now the 3rd owner. His father was the 1st owner. He had a 383 with a little over 500hp with all of these spare parts in the car. He gave all the parts to me because the engine they were on started knocking after about 100 miles. He was fed up with alot of mishaps he was having and gave the car to me. All of these parts were on the car for about 2 weeks. I know the shop that restored the vehicle and he spent over 20k doing a complete frame off, with new engine, trans, 4.11 rear end, interior, everything. So I am pretty sure all of the parts I have recieved are high quality and I do have all reciepts except the ones for the engine block. He doesnt remember exactly the specs of the engine so I was trying to figure out the specs of an engine that would be ideal for all of the parts I have.

Now I prefer the 383 stroker but I do not want 500hp. I was thinking a 383 with about 400-415 with 430-440 ft/lbs torque. But I do not know alot about stall converters and never had one above about 2600. I have no clue what type of build I needed for a 3000. I am not opposed to buy a new one but then it would probably make me have to wait until next season to drop an engine in my car due to funds. So that is why I really would like to use the parts I have and just add the block. If you have any thoughts let me know. I appreciate everyones response as this is my first Chevy, previous cars were a 1965 Dodge Coronet 500 with a 383/727 combo and a 1967 Pontiac firebird with a 455/400 combo. Thanks Peter


cobalt327 said:
Trying to build an entire vehicle around a "3000 rpm stall converter" of unknown pedigree is a fool's venture, IMO.

To begin with, there is no such thing as a "3,000 stall" TC.

A TC that'll stall @ 3K RPM behind my BBC will certainly NOT stall @ 3K RPM behind your 305. And vice versa.

The converter was given to the OP by the previous owner- there's no way to know whether or not the TC would have stalled anything even close to that behind the 383 that it was supposedly mated to- THAT 383 didn't make it out of the drive way before being terminated.

OTOH, there's nothing saying that a combo can't be concocted that will require a 3000 RPM stall TC. But I would not presume THAT TC to be the one that will provide the 3 K stall- I'd leave that up to a reputable TC company to come up with- given all of the engine and vehicle parameters.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
75 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Cobalt regarding whether or not the stall worked exactly at 3000 rpm, we both cant remember. I drove the car too as we both tried to figure out what exactly we were hearing. Never really paid attention to the trans and stall because of the problems with the engine. I really want to get this car on the road as I havent had a muscle car driving since 2001 when I first got my 67 bird. Thanks again for all the help
 

·
More for Less Racer
Joined
·
20,952 Posts
If the motor you put in front of the converter you have makes less power than the one from before, the stall will automatically be lower. You might only get 2600-2800 out of it. Can you give is a roughly close idea as to the measured Diameter (tape measure) of the converter?? 9", 10", 11", 12"?? Each "inch" has an approximate range of stall it will commonly produce.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17,613 Posts
I know of no edict that says you can't run a 3000 stall converter behind a bone-stock motor with a bone-stock cam. Matter of fact, you might skin the guy in the other lane for the first couple hundred feet if he's running a 3000 stall with a lumpy cam because you'd be stalling the motor at the torque peak and he wouldn't.

It's pretty easy to make hp and torque with a 383, even on a budget. Here's just one recipe, there are thousands. This would make a good pump gas street motor.

Block. Cut decks for 9.008" block deck height, 0.040" head gaskets
Crank. Scat 9000 cast steel.
Rods. Scat I-beam capscrew 5.700"
Pistons. Keith Black hypereutectic #KB135
Heads. Racing Head Service #12410 Pro Torquer Vortec 170
Intake. Edelbrock RPM or Weiand Stealth
Carb. 600 CFM vacuum secondaries
Headers. 1 5/8" primaries, long-tube, equal-length.
Camshaft. CompCams flat tappet hydraulic Magnum 12-212-2
Static compression ratio. 9.70:1 with 18cc pistons, 64cc heads
Dynamic compression ratio. 8.18:1 with cam advanced 2 degrees
Squish. 0.040"

RPM HP TQ
2000 146 383
2500 184 387
3000 239 418
3500 304 456
4000 365 479
4500 418 488
5000 458 481
5500 478 457
6000 477 418

http://performanceparts.com/part.php?partID=405558
http://kb-silvolite.com/performance.php?action=details&P_id=93
http://www.compcams.com/Cam_Specs/CamDetails.aspx?csid=79&sb=0
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SCA-935050/
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SCA-25700P/
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
76 Posts
As stated before, why not use that 455 you have? You could change the mounts fairly easily, run an adapter plate to fit the 455 to the TH350 (unless the TH350 you already have is a dual bolt pattern version) and go to town. That 455 should make awesome torque but I think the 3K stall might be a bit much for it (depending on how the motor was built) but would still "work" and you would have a pretty interested rig.
 

·
More for Less Racer
Joined
·
20,952 Posts
RamAirZ said:
As stated before, why not use that 455 you have? You could change the mounts fairly easily, run an adapter plate to fit the 455 to the TH350 (unless the TH350 you already have is a dual bolt pattern version) and go to town. That 455 should make awesome torque but I think the 3K stall might be a bit much for it (depending on how the motor was built) but would still "work" and you would have a pretty interested rig.
Sacrilege!! It's bad enough that they put SBC's in Pontiacs, but waste a good 455 on a Camaro?? I'm a Chevy guy, and I like Pontiacs too, got a '74 GTO. 455 Pontiacs are too hard too find to waste them on a Chevy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
76 Posts
I kinda agree with you but considering he's not wanting to spend alot of money and has a perfectly good 455 sitting there? I sold my 69' Tempest that I was building and I was dead set on keeping the OHC straight 6 in it! If that didn't stay it would be an EFI 455. Just trying to keep the budget in mind.
 

·
WFO
Joined
·
5,030 Posts
"Waste" a 455 on a Chevy? That's just lame, IMO.

I "wasted" a 455 on a '81 Camaro (have mentioned the car and engine several times on this forum, for that matter) and the car ran effortless 12's all day long w/a 3.08, ran lower 12's w/a 3.23 12-bolt. And no, you do not want a TC rated at 3K RPM behind a SBC (even a 383) for a 455- it would stall at around 4K RPM, give or take- more take.

A 455 Pontiac does not need a loose TC. I used a tight 11" and came off the line at an idle and just matted it on the last yellow. No brainer 12 second ride that you could drive all day anywhere- in traffic or highway, didn't matter.

Even had a Ford starter solenoid on it! Oh, the sacrilege! :rolleyes: :p (BTW, I think it's sacrilege to call a Nova a GTO LOL)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
75 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
The problem I would have I believe with the 455 is the billet pulleys wouldnt fit, the alternator, starter, water pump, msd ignition ect I do not know if they would fit on a 455. That is alot of money in parts alone. The engine I have now is just intake to oil pan. That was my hesitation on the 455. If anyone has a 383 stroker rebuild they want to trade for the 455 that would be great. It is a 1975 455 block with #18 heads I believe came on a 68 350 or 400 and 11:1 compression. Other than that I cannot be exact on anything as I cannot find the build sheet that my uncle had after he passed away. Thanks Peter
 

·
More for Less Racer
Joined
·
20,952 Posts
cobalt327 said:
"Waste" a 455 on a Chevy? That's just lame, IMO.

I "wasted" a 455 on a '81 Camaro (have mentioned the car and engine several times on this forum, for that matter) and the car ran effortless 12's all day long w/a 3.08, ran lower 12's w/a 3.23 12-bolt. And no, you do not want a TC rated at 3K RPM behind a SBC (even a 383) for a 455- it would stall at around 4K RPM, give or take- more take.

A 455 Pontiac does not need a loose TC. I used a tight 11" and came off the line at an idle and just matted it on the last yellow. No brainer 12 second ride that you could drive all day anywhere- in traffic or highway, didn't matter.

Even had a Ford starter solenoid on it! Oh, the sacrilege! :rolleyes: :p (BTW, I think it's sacrilege to call a Nova a GTO LOL)
Good one, Cobalt, on the X-body GTO lol :D . I like it simply because I also have a '72 Nova SS and the '74 Goat is a one year only rarity. It's been tough to find any of the non-nova parts for it tho', like trim and emblems.

(I use Ford starter solenoids on my stuff too, sometimes you just have to use what works the best :thumbup: )
 

·
WFO
Joined
·
5,030 Posts
petes67bird said:
The problem I would have I believe with the 455 is the billet pulleys wouldnt fit, the alternator, starter, water pump, msd ignition ect I do not know if they would fit on a 455. That is alot of money in parts alone. The engine I have now is just intake to oil pan. That was my hesitation on the 455.
You are correct that the SBC components will not fit the 455 Pontiac. The alternator and ignition amp would be about it, AFA compatibility.

Shame that your budget doesn't allow a little more leeway in your decision making- but if that's not in the cards, so be it. :(

All I know is I had a ball w/my Camaro. It is a car that I would consider redoing at some future date- it was that good. I had a lapse of concentration at the track one night. Left it in "DRIVE". The car ran an uncorrected 12.90, w/a 3.08 rear gear. Try that w/a SBC.
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top