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Save a horse, Ride a Cowboy.
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KULTULZ said:
Yeah, that old CLV technology is old hat. Wouldn't pull a greased string out of a cats' a s s...

I'll be damned... :p


Duke, what I said was that the ancient C /M /W heads have ports and valves that need significant improvement.

The new aftermarket heads concentrate on the W series engines. Only recently has the newest C type heads become available and they are VERY VERY EXPENSIVE. What's the CM/W build ratio..... like 6%?

These new C heads flow significantly more volume the the original C heads....through much smaller cross sectional ports and make MUCH more power across the board. About the only commonality with the original heads is that they still bolt on. Read the last Engine Masters Challenge.

Factory C/W stuff is ancient technology. period.

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Give it up Duke..... they :rolleyes: should be banned from this site...... :D

This reminds me of the tee shirt.... "My parents said I could be anything, so I became an ****shole"

I just add them to my IGNORE LIST that now has 19 names on it.
And if they give ME any bs, I will do whatever I can to get them banned.
 

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Save a horse, Ride a Cowboy.
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Grandpa always said,

"Never argue with an idiot, someone listening might not be able to tell the difference."

SO, whomever believes that someone else is an idiot, you should just SHUT UP and ignore them.
 

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aka Duke of URL
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Your observations on 335 Series Engine Technology is just like an a s s hole. Everyone has one.

To think that I would go out and buy a very expensive set of non-FORD aluminum heads when I can go to a salvage yard and find something that will stand up to them except in heads-up drag is just plain wasting money. How many 6000 RPM banzai runs do you launch on the street everynight? How often can you actually run a full quarter of a mile without going to jail?

I am going to give it a rest, please do the same.
 

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Save a horse, Ride a Cowboy.
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KULTULZ said:
Your observations on 335 Series Engine Technology is just like an a s s hole. Everyone has one.

To think that I would go out and buy a very expensive set of non-FORD aluminum heads when I can go to a salvage yard and find something that will stand up to them except in heads-up drag is just plain wasting money. How many 6000 RPM banzai runs do you launch on the street everynight? How often can you actually run a full quarter of a mile without going to jail?

I am going to give it a rest, please do the same.
Take you medicine.

You have a lot of technical knowledge that I respect, and I appreciate things you input,

but you are strictly "old school" all the way.
 

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aussi fords

A friend of mine was an Engineer at ford for about 20 years, a VP at Saleen for a few years and had his own shop building fast fords and a few corvettes and camero's. I remember him saying his Pantera had a set of austrialian heads. and they were much better than the usa stuff. also the 302's made in mexico had more horses than domestic
 

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Oh lord....

CrazyRoyExhaustfreak said:
Fork
Over
Repair
Dough

Get a GM 0r Mopar
KULTULZ said:
Has to be at least one MORON in every crowd... :rolleyes:
Yup. Myself, I find it hard to understand the rivalry to begin with but that's what makes good competition I guess. But idiots like CrazyRoyExhaustFreak are truly braindead.

I like 'em all. 351 Clevelands and Windsors, 302s, 460s, 427s. Chrysler Hemis and 440s, Chevy 427s and 454s, 327s, 302Zs. AMC 390s. There isn't one of them I wouldn't own. American muscle is a great thing.

*Waiting for CrazyRoyExhaustfreak school me on how there's no such thing as a Chevy 302 or a Ford 427.*

:thumbup:
 

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help 351C or 351M/400

i am lost i cant figure this out i no what to look for now but someone said that 351C did not come stock in 1979 F150s in america but mine was made in canada so if someone could help me out that would awsome also what gears were in the ford 9"
 

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aka Duke of URL
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The 351C was only available model years 70/74 and they were passenger car (most were not performance models).

Light truck was still using 360/390 FE and changing over to the 351M/400 after 1975.

I cannot figure why this subject is so confusing... :confused:
 

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aka Duke of URL
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And He Came Down From The Mountain

:welcome:

THIS IS HOLY GRAIL...PLEASE RESPECT IT...

In all discussions of Ford V8 engines, it is extremely important to understand that Ford, unlike its competitors at the time (How many GM Divisions were there?), did not have just small block and big block engines. Ford engines generally came in three size ranges, sized to best suit the application (In other words, FOMOCO did more with less).

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DISCLAIMER: I enjoy (and respect) all car makes and models. What I don't enjoy is being continually bad-mouthed regarding my personal taste in automotive.

For the most part (very infrequently) do you see me bad mouthing on BOW-TIE threads? I do become emotionally unstable at the commonly accepted practice of INTER-SPECIES MIXING. You want a STOVEBOLT, go find a body to match it.
 

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Glad the Jeep is on the road
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KULTULZ said:
:welcome:

THIS IS HOLY GRAIL...PLEASE RESPECT IT...

In all discussions of Ford V8 engines, it is extremely important to understand that Ford, unlike its competitors at the time (How many GM Divisions were there?), did not have just small block and big block engines. Ford engines generally came in three size ranges, sized to best suit the application (In other words, FOMOCO did more with less).

********************

DISCLAIMER: I enjoy (and respect) all car makes and models. What I don't enjoy is being continually bad-mouthed regarding my personal taste in automotive.

For the most part (very infrequently) do you see me bad mouthing on BOW-TIE threads? I do become emotionally unstable at the commonly accepted practice of INTER-SPECIES MIXING. You want a STOVEBOLT, go find a body to match it.
Kultulz is much better at the older stuff than I am, but here is the size categorization I find useful:
  • Windsor V8 family (221/260/289/302/5.0L/351W/5.8L)
    FE family (mainly 390/428)
    335 family (351C/351M/400)
    385 family (429/460)
    Lima 6s (144/170/200/250)
    Cleveland sixes (240/300)

There are a few oddball variants I don't list, but this is the meat and potatoes. I think the reason there is so much confusion is that no one under 50 remembers much about the Clevelands, and there has been so much mis-information repeated that the truth is often obscured. If I had a nickel for every piece of inaccurate "knowledge" repeated to me about Clevelands, I would own a couple.
 

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runn141 said:
i posted what i thought was right, i got corrected no big deal. i thought it was gonna help but i got the help instead. now you say its past my bedtime is that because im 30 and your a washed up old fart :rolleyes:
didn't read all the threads but you really do seem to miss the boat....as do MANY of y'all.... 351m/400 means just that....400 is not a 'M'. The 400 was designed using the cleveland set up for heavy cars-higher deck for longer stroke...'71 was a great year for the 400...decent numbers for a 2v engine 265hp and over 400ft lbs...ford played with a 4v version...didn't take. I now build 400 4v using aussie 2v closed chamber heads they used on their 302 cleveland and 351 clevelands down under...great engine. The 351m is a modified version of the 400...crank and piston change. The 400 only had 1 decent year before all engines had smog control shoved down their throat and sucked hind end until folks like me got the 400 going again...now theres stroker kits for a 434 and a 400 made the finals of Jegs engine masters comp last go around. heads, intakes, cams, timing sets, everything is available for the 400 to make a killer set up that rivals the 385 series...but will never overtake due to cid...

All decent wheezers/ 351W use cleveland style heads...period...the best ford wheezer heads SUCK hiney when compared to a 4v and most to a 2v cleveland. I'd take a cleveland in a light car over a wheezer any day of the week but would opt for the W in a bronco/truck..clevelands spin very well....different motors. I just built a W for a bronco and used '65 289 4v heads as they were better than any of the W heads i could find...whats that all about? WIth porting and bigger valves and a comp cam 265deh I'll get close to 300hp...not bad for a mild build..clevor it with cleveland heads and 400+ easy tho.

Clevelands are the best spinning engine ford made other than the 289...and they're close. It was made to race and a 4v cleveland has the best heads ford ever made stock...they are race quality heads. Wheezer has a better oiling system and a stronger design overall so a clevor is a great combination.


come and lets build some engines eh?
 

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Aussie clevo

You guy's must be kidding... We don't use Windsors here in Australia because you can't get decent HP out of them unless you go to an alloy head.
We build 500 FWHP Cleveland engines with 2V cast iron factory closed chamber heads and that's in our street cars :D
These are 2 bolt main engines running standard oil pumps as well.
We also slip in the 302 Clevo rods with ARP bolts to give a better rod ratio.
High rise single plane, 850 Holley , solid cam and 4 into 1 pipes and your ready to go at 6800 to 7000 rpm.
Try and do that with a 351 W...
This is still the land of 98 octane pump gas... :p
 

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floppers forever
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downunder racing said:
You guy's must be kidding... We don't use Windsors here in Australia because you can't get decent HP out of them unless you go to an alloy head.
We build 500 FWHP Cleveland engines with 2V cast iron factory closed chamber heads and that's in our street cars :D
These are 2 bolt main engines running standard oil pumps as well.
We also slip in the 302 Clevo rods with ARP bolts to give a better rod ratio.
High rise single plane, 850 Holley , solid cam and 4 into 1 pipes and your ready to go at 6800 to 7000 rpm.
Try and do that with a 351 W...
This is still the land of 98 octane pump gas... :p



how long has it been since the last post on this subject?2007 :smash:
 

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302/351 Clevor

This is a common mistake about the 351C it is NOT a big block it is a SMALL BLOCK and the heads can be put on a windsor with the right mods
YUP, The BOSS 302 was the Original "CLEVOR" engine, which came out on the market before the 351 cleveland. Today the 9.5" deck Clevor engines have become even more popular/common than using the 351cleveland block which imo has become a lost cause.



IMO... out of the 3 engines listed in thread title... ONLY the 351W blocks are worth using/building with today!, especialy with all of the many aftermarket W block offerings like from rpm int, procomp, wheeler and others out now.
 

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Good info by Onebadmerc on 351w. Dan Gurney used these on his weslake ford motors in his can am and gt40s. Thanks for the detail.

I have been really wanting to find/get more info on this but I understand Gurney DID test and had plans to use a aluminum XE244963 canted valve type head on the XE93532 9.2" 351w Mirage engine block for can am use.

Would anyone out there by chance have anymore info about this???
 
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