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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Doing homework on engine choices while getting new shop set up. I'm going to build a pick-up (Old Willys, Chevy Apache or 'glass Model A, head still spinning)

I want bottom-end torque. Grew up driving "Poppin' Johnnies ( 900 rpm red-line!!!) and don't like to rev engines. Bad knees mean auto trans.

So a 383 would probably do a good job, but "What if . . . ????

Has anyone built a 4" stroke 350 block engine? How was it's low end grunt???
 

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It might be possible with todays technology but really expensive. Build a 409/427/509 W gen I big block? That would be cool. Ive seen 455 swapped into old trucks. A modern rat is a brute, especially a 540 or bigger. 500 Cadillac?
 

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4.0"stroke can be done in a stock 350 block, but in a stock block it is really risky....you've got about a 1 in 3 shot right ff the bat of not getting past the clearance grinding stage.
I wouldn't try it without a epoxy block fill in the bottom 1" of waterjacket first, just in case.

3.875" stroke is a much easier fit, even though it is a good bit of clearance work in the crankcase. The .030" overbore on a stock 4.0" bore block makes a 396" SBC.

You'd be a lot smarter to buy an aftermarket block that will already be cast and machined for clearance and can be had with a 4.125" bore nad use that 3.875" stroke to make a 414"....now your talkin'

By the time you correctly machine up a stock block for this, you will be within a stones throw of just getting a much better, more stable 4.125" bore aftermarket block. Plus you get the added cubic inches and breathing room for the head.
 

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I think EricNova is right about 4" stroke in a 350 block; I'd stick to the "normal" 383 pattern with a 3.75" stroke. Should offer plenty of torque for a street motor, and be budget friendly.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I ran a 434 in my late model dirt stock car. 4.155 bore with 4" stroke. But it was built on a 400 block. Stump puller. It eventually cracked the main webs in the middle of the 3rd season.
What rpm range were you running?? Ever put it on a dyno?

Yeah, a 383 would be the "simple" answer, but was just wondering how much more . . .:LOL::LOL::LOL:
 

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What rpm range were you running?? Ever put it on a dyno?

Yeah, a 383 would be the "simple" answer, but was just wondering how much more . . .:LOL::LOL::LOL:
Yes, it was on the dyno a couple of times. Made 680 HP on alcohol. Ran it in the 4500 to 7500 range. This was back in the early 90's. It had Canfield heads on it just to show how long ago. That was before they became AFR. There were guys with a little more HP, but they never could hook it up to the dry tracks we ran on. I won a lot of races with that motor.
I'm sure a 434 built today will make a lot more HP.
 

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You can build a 400 to 420 ft pound 383 very easy. A 4 inch stroke on a 350 block requires a huge amount of metal removal rendering the block structurally unsound. Aftermarket blocks are available that will accept this that have a more spacious crankcase, raised cam bore, and a taller deck height. This gives space for a longer stroke crank to swing in the provided space, the raised cam bore allows the use of a full size shaft core without reverting to a small core cam which doesn’t wear well nor does it require clearancing on the big end of the rods. The raised deck height provides space for optimum rod length without having to run the lower piston rings across the pin bore hole of the piston and leaves space for some piston skirt necessary to react the thrust loads into the cylinder wall.

What you really got used to on a poppin Johnny is beyond deep gears, lots of grunt but not much speed. Horsepower relates to speed, you have to have it to maintain highway speeds or use a huge engine which becomes unpractical heavy. When you look back at the race cars of the 1920’s through the mid 1950’s seeking best maximum speed records or early drag racers there was a tendency to use slow revving massive displacement aircraft engines. While suitable for their era’s engine building technology they by modern standards were eclipsed by smaller engines turning much higher RPM. The choice made is RPM is where the power lies, that allows greater power density, i.e. smaller lighter engine and driveline components that allow more speed.

If your budget can’t support an aftermarket block the next best choice would be a big block like a 454 or a Caddy 500 this would fit an Apache with ease and be a reasonable fit to an old Willys. A glass T could take it but a small block would make a better balanced chassis.

A modern transmission would be a 700R4 or if you can accept a computer a 4L60E. Both of these have identical gearing with a deep low that launches hard and lights up the tires easily with a laid back 4th gear overdrive there 2000 RPM with a 3.08 axle ratio will net about 75 mph.

If you can hack a computer doing everything a 6.0 LS motor weighs little fits in tight spaces and delivers piles of torque and horsepower.



Bogie
 

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Turkey, torque is in proportion to cubic inches not stroke of the engine. A longer stroke engine has a faster piston speed at same rpm. You want more torque, build a bigger engine. A lot of performance parts will enhance the engine no matter the cubes, usually by increasing the rpm. Higher rpm engines make their torque at a higher rpm,,,generalities,,,
 

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Yes, it was on the dyno a couple of times. Made 680 HP on alcohol. Ran it in the 4500 to 7500 range. This was back in the early 90's. It had Canfield heads on it just to show how long ago. That was before they became AFR. There were guys with a little more HP, but they never could hook it up to the dry tracks we ran on. I won a lot of races with that motor.
I'm sure a 434 built today will make a lot more HP.
Just a little corrective info....not jumping on you, just for others who may find it by search(yeah, good liuck with that, thanks VS LOL)
Canfield was Canfield, never became AFR and Canfield closed its doors sometime around 2012 or so.

AFR used to be the old Brownfield company....maybe the fact they both had "field" in the name leads to this confusion.

I've got a set of CNC's Canfield 220cc NPP's going on one of my two 406's.I got them at close-out pricing when Canfield shut down and the equipment was all sold off(owner retired, could not find a buyer for company)

Someone has bought the rights to the BBC Canfield and is offering it again...but not the SBC or Ford stuff, just the BBC. Straub has posted wh it is, but I cannot remember.
 

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Just a little corrective info....not jumping on you, just for others who may find it by search(yeah, good liuck with that, thanks VS LOL)
Canfield was Canfield, never became AFR and Canfield closed its doors sometime around 2012 or so.

AFR used to be the old Brownfield company....maybe the fact they both had "field" in the name leads to this confusion.

I've got a set of CNC's Canfield 220cc NPP's going on one of my two 406's.I got them at close-out pricing when Canfield shut down and the equipment was all sold off(owner retired, could not find a buyer for company)

Someone has bought the rights to the BBC Canfield and is offering it again...but not the SBC or Ford stuff, just the BBC. Straub has posted wh it is, but I cannot remember.
Thanks ericnova72. You are correct. I had just read something about Canfield heads and got them confused with Brownfield. I just remembered it was AFR now. Brownfield is what was on that old motor. Sorry, that was only 30 years ago. Man my memory seems to be getting worse and worse.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
If you can hack a computer doing everything a 6.0 LS motor weighs little fits in tight spaces and delivers piles of torque and horsepower.

Bogie
Very interesting idea. I happen to have a 2002 GMC 2500HD with 6.0 and rebuilt trans that I was getting ready to sell. Problem is engine developed a bad knock so Truck might be worth the same with or without engine so I could pull that engine/trans -- but got lots of thinking/number crunching to do.

Thanks for the help!
 

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Ground pounding low rpm torque means BB to me. A 427-434 ci SB says cubic $ to me.

A 2 bolt main 350 with a budget 6” rod 383 kit can be spec’d for 400+ ft/lbs if torque on the cheap.

If you have the budget then buy a World Products or Dart block SBC and build a 414 as Eric described, but have an extra $7500 ready to spend.
 

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If you're sticking with a small block, then you'll need stroke, but keep in mind that stroke does not make torque, displacement does. Take two identical displacements (let's say an Olds 455 with it's long stroke and a Buick 455 with it's huge bore) if they both get the same air and fuel, they will make identical torque. The old idea that stroke increases torque is a myth.

If you're willing to look outside the SBC architecture, there are plenty of ways to get more cubes without expensive stroker modifications.
 

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Dad and I have a few of those Puttin Johnnies. We have an A, a G, and an H. All three of them are still in service. The H usually pulls a hay wagon, the G pulls a 4-bottom plow, and I often follow on the A with a disk
 
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