I need some help figuring out the details. I want to build a sbf that puts out around 500hp. It's for my 64 comet which will be a street/strip car. I was looking at Probe internals. But is 427 with a 4.170stroke too big of a stroke or would a 408 with 4.000 be better. Also which heads should i use. I was looking at stage 2 AFR heads but they're pretty expensive. I was wondering if there were any cheaper internals for that big of a stroke. I wanted to run dual quads for that 60's style. Please help me out with the details.
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There is a 64 running about here that sounds real bad. At a car cruise I finally got a look under the hood. When I was building my 65 mustang in 1976 I wanted it to sound like that. I put on headers and bought the biggest hyd cam kit that Crane offered. It was 500 lift 300 duration with 120 degrees of over lap. I expected to have a rumbling machine. What I got was a motor that sounded stock. The cam had a 3000-7000 rpm range and when it hit 3000 it felt like you gave it a nitrous shot. I pulled hard but didnt sound good. My nephew built his 85 mustang this last summer. He got the 347 kit and big cam all the goodies. It cost him 10,000 in parts and machine work and he assembled it. When he started it up it sounded stock. It runs strong but you cant tell its a built motor. My question is why if you cam a chevy or dodge they sound great but fords dont seem to. By the way the 64 had a small block chevy in it. I am not dissing fords I just dont understand how they sound stock with all the right parts.
I am not sure what your talking about.....what do you call a big cam? A 268 adv. duration cam will have an exhaust note whether its ford or chevy....or maybe my ears have decived me? Thats a street camshaft as well.
I have heard others metion the stock 351wHO camshaft has some lope to it if installed in the 302, with that in mind I have a 351w HO and don't really consider it to have much of any lope at all.
I have heard others metion the stock 351wHO camshaft has some lope to it if installed in the 302, with that in mind I have a 351w HO and don't really consider it to have much of any lope at all.
I would build a 408 just to be safe with a stock block. The AFR heads are a great choice, and well worth the money. Check out these articles.
http://airflowresearch.com/articles/article46/A-P1.htm
http://airflowresearch.com/articles/article64/A-P3.htm
http://airflowresearch.com/articles/article04/A4-P5.htm
Adam
http://airflowresearch.com/articles/article46/A-P1.htm
http://airflowresearch.com/articles/article64/A-P3.htm
http://airflowresearch.com/articles/article04/A4-P5.htm
Adam
I don't know I have heard some pretty mean sounding sbf. I am looking for a roller cam 351 out of mid 80's to 97 truck. I figure I should have it soniced checked too before comiting to the block. I was wondering what you guys have heard about Probe ind. Internal components. Also I was wondering where i could find a good flowing dual quad intake. I have seen edelbrock's but i hate Edelbrock carbs and that's all that fit the manifold. Thanks for the links i read those articles a while back and that's why i wanted AFR heads
As far as probe stuff goes, I havent heard much of anything about them good or bad. I would personally go with Eagle crank and rods, and JE pistons. As far as the inake goes, I would not go with a dual quad. That will be too much for your combonation. I would look at the Victor JR 351, and run a holley 750-850 carb.
Adam
Adam
500 HP Winsor
IT would be possible to build this engine. I have run the figures through my virtual dyno with both the 3.85 and 4.00 stroker kits.
With Twisted Wedge heads (out of the box), 10:1 compression, a solid lifter cam of 260 degrees dur. @ at .050" , a .592 lift, 850 CFM of carburetion, and 2 inch headers, and a single plenum intake.
The problem with the intake is that noone makes a dual quad unit for it. The closest you could get in an intake would be a single plenum unit.
You could run a 302 dual quad intake with adapter plates, which there are companies that at least did make the plates until more stuff became available for the 351W. The power band on either engine starts at about 2000 RPM (good torque above 300 Lb Ft)and runs on up to 6000-6500 RPM for both engines, 490-500 hp.
A set of the Twisted Wedge "bracket" heads would do the trick for heads, as they come ported out.
This would just barely get you in the 500 HP target area, with the out of the box heads. With the "Bracket" heads you would easily get into your 500 Hp range. With the 850 CFM, I fear you would have some driveabilty problems around town, however dropping a 750 on it only costs you 10-15 hp at the peaks.
Probe stuff is good equipment. Very solid and reliable.
You could run dual quads on your engine, but I would go with a set of dual 450 CFM Holleys or even daul 390's, with vacuum secondaries on either one.
With the 302 dual quad intake, the adaptor plates, and the two carbs, it will run you around $1100-1300 for your intake setup.
Racer Walsh offers the 3.85 stroker kit complete, around $1500.
Summit could put you together a kit with the Twisted Wedge pistons for about the same price.
IT would be possible to build this engine. I have run the figures through my virtual dyno with both the 3.85 and 4.00 stroker kits.
With Twisted Wedge heads (out of the box), 10:1 compression, a solid lifter cam of 260 degrees dur. @ at .050" , a .592 lift, 850 CFM of carburetion, and 2 inch headers, and a single plenum intake.
The problem with the intake is that noone makes a dual quad unit for it. The closest you could get in an intake would be a single plenum unit.
You could run a 302 dual quad intake with adapter plates, which there are companies that at least did make the plates until more stuff became available for the 351W. The power band on either engine starts at about 2000 RPM (good torque above 300 Lb Ft)and runs on up to 6000-6500 RPM for both engines, 490-500 hp.
A set of the Twisted Wedge "bracket" heads would do the trick for heads, as they come ported out.
This would just barely get you in the 500 HP target area, with the out of the box heads. With the "Bracket" heads you would easily get into your 500 Hp range. With the 850 CFM, I fear you would have some driveabilty problems around town, however dropping a 750 on it only costs you 10-15 hp at the peaks.
Probe stuff is good equipment. Very solid and reliable.
You could run dual quads on your engine, but I would go with a set of dual 450 CFM Holleys or even daul 390's, with vacuum secondaries on either one.
With the 302 dual quad intake, the adaptor plates, and the two carbs, it will run you around $1100-1300 for your intake setup.
Racer Walsh offers the 3.85 stroker kit complete, around $1500.
Summit could put you together a kit with the Twisted Wedge pistons for about the same price.
Thanks. I had looked at the twisted wedge heads too. But and found out a lot more info on the AFR's. I also know a guy with some AFR's on his SBC and he loves them. Also I would think the roller valvetrain would free up a couple more horses.
500 HP 351W
I can speak on the Twisted Wedge heads from experience. I have them on a 351w myself. They are the absolute best bang for the buck when it comes to streetable aftermarket heads. Of course talking with the kind of lift you are going to need for your cam, being able to button a set of twisted wedge heads on without using pistons with special valve reliefs becomes moot.
I am partial to the Trick Flow brand heads myself, in any style.
I have looked at the AFR heads and they dont flow any better than the Twisted Wedge heads but are a good deal more in price.
A roller cam will not give you any significant boosts in power in the rpm range I mentioned in the previous post. At least not for the difference in price. I wouldnt even mess with a Roller unless I was planning to spend all day running in excess of 6500 RPM.
I can speak on the Twisted Wedge heads from experience. I have them on a 351w myself. They are the absolute best bang for the buck when it comes to streetable aftermarket heads. Of course talking with the kind of lift you are going to need for your cam, being able to button a set of twisted wedge heads on without using pistons with special valve reliefs becomes moot.
I am partial to the Trick Flow brand heads myself, in any style.
I have looked at the AFR heads and they dont flow any better than the Twisted Wedge heads but are a good deal more in price.
A roller cam will not give you any significant boosts in power in the rpm range I mentioned in the previous post. At least not for the difference in price. I wouldnt even mess with a Roller unless I was planning to spend all day running in excess of 6500 RPM.
500 HP 351W
Thats a good way to go with it. Do you have a Summit Catalogue? They handle all those parts, crank, rods, the whole smear. The probe stuff is very good but you dont need that exotic of equipment here. Check their website and compare the prices.
You could also check with Speedway in Lincoln Nebraska.
summitracing.com
speedwaymotors.com
Thats a good way to go with it. Do you have a Summit Catalogue? They handle all those parts, crank, rods, the whole smear. The probe stuff is very good but you dont need that exotic of equipment here. Check their website and compare the prices.
You could also check with Speedway in Lincoln Nebraska.
summitracing.com
speedwaymotors.com
500 HP 31W
Exotic as in price tag.
Summit and the others handle Eagle rods, which are a lot less expensive, and for your application, just as good.
In fact Summits $500 set of H beam rods will do quite well too.
Your pistons, Crank, and Rods will run you $1500 plus rings and bearings from Summit. (Twisted Wedge pistons).
The 3.85 stroker kit from Speedway will run you about $1200, including rod and main bearings.
These arent pistons cut for the Twisted Wedge head though.
Exotic as in price tag.
Summit and the others handle Eagle rods, which are a lot less expensive, and for your application, just as good.
In fact Summits $500 set of H beam rods will do quite well too.
Your pistons, Crank, and Rods will run you $1500 plus rings and bearings from Summit. (Twisted Wedge pistons).
The 3.85 stroker kit from Speedway will run you about $1200, including rod and main bearings.
These arent pistons cut for the Twisted Wedge head though.
That's what i was looking for, something cheaper when i started this thread i kind of got side tracked. But the reason i was looking at probe I couldn't find a crank with a 4.170 stroke any where else. I probably haven't looked hard enough. but I think a 408 will do just as good as a 427. Is just not as cool to say(just kidding)
500 HP 351W
Speaking of kewl, how about a 500 HP 390 cubic inch as thats what the 3.85 stroker will give you with a stock 4 inch bore. Its about 393 with a 30 over. You could go out and get you a set of 390 T-bird insignias and put on it.
That would really get the bow tie types scratching thier heads.
Speaking of kewl, how about a 500 HP 390 cubic inch as thats what the 3.85 stroker will give you with a stock 4 inch bore. Its about 393 with a 30 over. You could go out and get you a set of 390 T-bird insignias and put on it.
That would really get the bow tie types scratching thier heads.
500 HP 351 W
The 3.85 stroker kit is designed around a crank using stock 351 W rods and stock 302 pistons. In all reality, if you have your stock rods, just have them refurbished and put higher tensile rod bolts in them, get the crank and pistons, and you have it.
I would also recommend an aftermarket harmonic balancer and have the rotating assembly balanced. I dont know what that costs in your area, but its about $150 here.
Better yet, dont put any insignias on it and keep them guessing.
You can tell them its a 351W and they would never know the difference.
You should never advertise that you have a Nuke in your hip pocket when you are going to do stealth battle.
Its always more fun when the other guy thinks you dont have what youve got.
The 3.85 stroker kit is designed around a crank using stock 351 W rods and stock 302 pistons. In all reality, if you have your stock rods, just have them refurbished and put higher tensile rod bolts in them, get the crank and pistons, and you have it.
I would also recommend an aftermarket harmonic balancer and have the rotating assembly balanced. I dont know what that costs in your area, but its about $150 here.
Better yet, dont put any insignias on it and keep them guessing.
You can tell them its a 351W and they would never know the difference.
You should never advertise that you have a Nuke in your hip pocket when you are going to do stealth battle.
Its always more fun when the other guy thinks you dont have what youve got.
So I would use my rods get trick flow pistons and an 3.85 eagle crank.
I just ran this combo on my dyno. bored .30 over 3.85 crank twisted flow wedge heads 10:1 Large tube headers single plane with 780cfm carb .564/574, 278dur( it's a cam MM&FF used on the 408 motor.) made 538 hp at 6000 and 510 ftlb torque at 5000
Does that sound right?
Oh ya thanks for helping a kid out
I just ran this combo on my dyno. bored .30 over 3.85 crank twisted flow wedge heads 10:1 Large tube headers single plane with 780cfm carb .564/574, 278dur( it's a cam MM&FF used on the 408 motor.) made 538 hp at 6000 and 510 ftlb torque at 5000
Does that sound right?
Oh ya thanks for helping a kid out
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