[tyman00]

Hey guys, I know that this subject is getting beaten up lately, but after spending hours looking on the site and a couple bottles of eye drops to keep my eyes from bugging out I think I have come to a decision.

First off I have a 1951 Chevy pickup. I was first going to restore it but now I want to Street Rod it. So naturally the stock suspension, steering, chasis parts are not going to work.

I have read on and on about Mustang II IFS, Nova Clips, Monte Clips, and Camaro Clips. But the one thing that keeps comming back to me on a logical solution is the S10 Frameswap.

Since I want to upgrade the front and rear suspension (with possibly going to air ride in the future, and I would bet there are more available kits for S10's than MII and Monte Carlos) I thought why not go with something that is newer and seems to be the cheapest and easiest. Plus I will have parts to work with electrical, steering column, underbed gas tank, etc. I have also heard that that s10 swap will lower the body to the ground more, which is the effect I want right now.

So I ask of you, first, am I right in thinking this is my best route on a limited budget at the moment? I have the patience and time just not the cash.

Does anyone have any links to swaps, or any articles. I have seen the one on the suburban swap. But I am looking more specifically for a pickup swap.

Any and all help is welcomed and appreciated!! Thanks!

 

[OneMoreTime]

S-10 chassis

Actually for a pickup the s-10 swap makes some sense..measure the width of your existing frame and the width of the S-10 donor..Also check the wheelbase as I would hope you would not have to alter that..

Check the track of the S-10 and see if it is close to the track of the 51..if all that is good then it should work out..

When you strip the S-10 save all that you can for use in the 51..might save a few bucks that way...

If you just stick to basics and not get carried away with exotica this could be one of the rigs that actually gets done..:thumbup:

The suburban swap and the pickup swap will be about the same as about the only real diff is in the length of the cab..

OMT

 

[Triaged]

s10's have the same front suspension as a montecarol. It is by no means "newer"...it has all the geometry problems that a g-body has. They are also VERY narrow (s10's have a shorter center link but everything else in the front suspension is g-body).

 

[Centerline]

Actually there are way more air bag suspension kits available for the Mustang II IFS than GM clips or S-10 simply because the Mustang II IFS is more popular. Not to say they aren't available for the Camaro, or Monti clip (both by the way would be too wide for your truck) or the S-10. When it comes to a GM clip or the AD trucks, the one that works best is the Nova and air ride is available for that too.

When it comes to an S-10 frame swap I'm told they work pretty well for the AD trucks. However remember that although you are saving a little time setting up the chassis with the S-10 frame you will spend much more time correctly mounting and aligning the body and front end sheet metal. Just something to consider when making your decision.

Centerline

 

[OneMoreTime]

keeping the budget

Actually having done one of these kind of swaps I would strongly say to just do the nice truck deal..keep the springs and suspension stock and put in a good running fairly stock motor..

just keeping one of these clean and nice is enough for now and once the swap is completed I am sure that you will come up with a lot more things to spend money on..

Doing some thinking and planning is a big help in gettign one of these done and if one sticks to doable one will actually have a completed truck and not a garage rat..

As far as handling is concerned the IMCA guys do a lot of stuff with this type of chassis so you can look into that...

Just keepin it simple..:thumbup:

OMT

 

[tyman00]

To be honest with you I do not have a whole lot of experience in the welding/torching area. I have some but I do not have enough to want to dive into a clip project right now. I frequently see people saying, don't bite of more than you can chew, on here. I want to stick to that. I want to finish the actual project.

I have seen comments back and forth on the MII IFS. It looks like a great and fairly easy setup. For one I just cannot afford that right now. Second, I am not sure how feasible this is, but I really want to set in a BBF 460. I have heard these engines weigh upwards of 750lbs, which I think would be more than the MII was designed for, though I could be wrong. We have one in our 1979 F-250 and I just love them. And since you frequently see 350 Chevy's stuck in fords all the time I thought I would do a switch up and add one of fords better engines (in my opinion).

I guess without thinking I said a stupid comment in my first post about the availability for air ride kits. My logic was the fact that you see tons of s10's running around and at car shows with air ride. But centerline makes a valid point about MII being very common. Air ride will be a long time comming. I want to get the truck rolling, then I will save cash to add the air ride.

I know that it will take time and patience and creative work to set the body on the S10, but I think it is my best option and cheapest. Plus this way I have no stress about ruining a frame. I also would think that the S10 frame is more likely to stand up than the orig. frame. Since I have a feeling that I will be pulling trailers (my family owns a trailer sales business) once in a while I want something that will stand up. Plus I know that S10 parts can be had for the rear suspension easier than the factory suspension.

Now if someone wants to come and clip my front for me at no cost I might change my mind . Otherwise I will let my ingenuity and wallet make up my mind.

edit: OMT where can I find info about IMCA?

 

[OneMoreTime]

IMCA

http://www.imca.com/

Good place to start and there are a whole herd of vendors that make parts for these cars..Good guys to know if one is working with any kind of GM front suspension..

Do spme google searches and you will find a whole bunch of stuff..including books and such on how to modify the GM suspension for better handling and Performance..

There ya go..

Good luck

OMT

 

[Centerline]

I have seen comments back and forth on the MII IFS. It looks like a great and fairly easy setup. For one I just cannot afford that right now. Second, I am not sure how feasible this is, but I really want to set in a BBF 460. I have heard these engines weigh upwards of 750lbs, which I think would be more than the MII was designed for, though I could be wrong.

A little info on the Mustang II IFS from an earlier post.....

The Mustang II IFS is very popular for several reasons. They are easy to install, easy to get parts for, and most importantly they're designed to support a lot of weight. You may think of the Mustang II as a compact car but the suspension was designed to support a fully loaded Ford small block (approximately 475 lbs.) mounted (centered) directly over the crossmember. In street rods the engine is typically mounted behind the crossmember (front damper aligned at or near the center of the crossmember). The further back the engine is mounted the more weight is transfered to the rear. When using a Mustang II IFS, even with a 750 lb. big block Chevy mounted with it's front damper over the crossmember the typical Mustang IFS system only needs the same springs that the 4 cylinder Mustangs used. If you try to install the V8 springs you won't be able to get the suspension to even move they're so strong.

This pic explains why the Mustang II IFS actually supports less weight in a typical street rod than it was initially designed to carry. In the top image the stock Mustang V8 carried 1850 lbs on the front suspension. The Pinto carried somewhat less at 1700. The street rod only carries 1600 lbs. due to the location of the engine. The Hotrodders.com logo blocked out the numbers on the photo but you can confirm this by going to the Heidts site, which is where the pic came from.

I used a Mustang II IFS in my BBC powered pro-street 41 Chevy coupe and I also have one in my Hemi powered 53 Chevy pickup. Have no fear, they can easily support a big block.

Centerline

 

[tyman00]

I woud suppose I can pickup a S10 for $500. Then I have seats, powersteering pump, brake parts (including master cylinder) seats, electrical components, gas tank, etc.

Don't get me wrong. I believe you from all your MII posts, and your website (impressive by the way). But I have a feeling that the parts for the MII will cost much more than that and it won't include all the goodies to help out my process. I think the MII would be much cleaner, and possibly a smoother ride.

But I cannot stress how much the bucks come into play here. I am 20 working part time, and going to school full time, and paying for all my schooling fees (tuition, books, etc.) So cash is a rare comodity when you are around meimp: .

I thank you for your help and appreciate it, and believe me your previous posts had me set on a MII suspension till I heard that the 83-88 S10 Longbox is a real close match. Plus, who knows maybe I can pickup a 4x4. Now that would be cool; a 4x4 street rod.




Does anyone have links to the S10 conversions?

 

[[email protected]]

You can do a MII for nothing if you work it right. I have done 3 and the cost has been extremely low, in the $100 range. Buy a wrecked or non- operating complete MII car from the newspaper classifieds, take the front X-member and suspension, 8" rear end of it is a V-8 car, floor shifter is a neat street rod item too, then part out the rest of the car. Alternatively, shell out for a stock one from the junk yard. regardless, they install as easily as the after-market ones, are much safer IMHO, look great and are dirt cheap.

 

[tyman00]

That looks great. How much cutting will it take on the x member or on my frame?

Now you gone and done it. Making me doubt my decision again. I suppose this will never end till I go and buy one of the three huh?

 

[Kermitt47]

The August 2003 issue of Super Rod has a very detailed article of a great 48 Chev PU built by Scott Leon on an S10 chassis. The truck has lots of mods and looks like an old (better) version of the SSR truck. It helps that he is a design engineer for GM so had access to lots of info and parts. Great result but I think the MII front might be easier than the shortening and frame mounts and other work Scott did. Guess it depends on how much work you can do and your resources.

 

[tyman00]

Anyone know where I can find a copy of this article.

Also I know in this thread:

http://hotrodders.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=49796&highlight=s10+swap

He mentions an article. Does anyone have a copy of this. I tried emailing him with no reply. I am sorry if I sound perssistant. I just want to make sure I know what I am donig before I get started, so I want to make a good plan of this and a timeline to work by.

 

[OneMoreTime]

Determination

Most of this stuff gets done that way..just keeping on keeping on..Basically I think that how you go about this will be influenced by the parts you can come up with..

So start pulling together a pile of parts and be patient and it will all come to you..

i still think the S-10 swap is a good one..tho hey if I were to fall into a mustang suspension I sure would not turn it down..

A whole lot of this is being creative in the the use of the "pile of stuff" one accumulates..:thumbup:

Provided the S-10 frame is a good overall fit then it is a matter of fabbing up soome body mounts and then using as much as you can from the donor truck finishing it off..

There ya go!!

OMT

 

[advanced design]

Tyman00

I currently have a '48 1/2 ton project with the MII and am considering the S-10 frame for the next project on a '48 Suburban. Here is a '48 Suburban using an S-10 frame http://www.chooseyouritem.com/classics/files/63500/63657.html

The wheel base on the Suburban is the same as the truck.

I stopped by to check the vehicle out and the swap / build was very well done.

One of the challenge areas on using the S-10 is building the radiator core support around the steering box. It can be done but I ran into someone at the Nationals that had built his truck with the S-10 chassis using a steering gear rack and pinion and was very happy with it.

Isn't the oil pan sump on the 460 Ford in the front? If so you might want to keep that in mind for crossmember clearance.

You have been provided excellent advice. Just wanted to throw my $.02 worth.

 

[TooMany2count]

Tyman00

I ran into someone at the Nationals that had built his truck with the S-10 chassis using a steering gear rack and pinion and was very happy with it.

would love to know how he did that...



tyman00 here's a few sites to look at for a S-10 frame swap

http://chevytrucks.org/tech/s10_frame_swap.htm
http://www.mongosgarage.com/S47/progress.htm
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthr...=281852&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1 (<~~~ WARNING if you do decide to join this site PLEASE read thier RULES first & do an intro, cause if ya dont sometimes it aint pretty)
http://www.commerce.usask.ca/staff/hipkin/burb/frameswap.html


and here's my baby, Large Marge on a stretched S-10 frame

 

[tyman00]

Isn't the oil pan sump on the 460 Ford in the front? If so you might want to keep that in mind for crossmember clearance.

You are correct, but I believe Moroso makes a sump the other way. If not Moroso I know someone does.


Thank You everyone for your help. After reading countless threads and all of your input here I feel more confident getting a start on this project:thumbup:

 

[advanced design]

TooMany2count,

Love that Large Marge!

Anyway the guy that is doing the rack on the S-10 is Paul Breeze Breeze's Odd Rods & Customs Evansville, IN. 812-424-7444. Just called him and he approved sharing his number.

 

[Stinkin_V8]

TooMany2count, I hadn't seen your project before, it looks pretty cool!

The '52 Suburban/S-10 page above is mine. I just wanted to chime in about the steering box and the rad support. The original rad support actually helps align the grill and fenders so you need to do something up there to make it work with whatever swap you go with.

I realized my solution was pretty skimmed over on my page (here) so I'll go into some more detail, I hope this helps or at least jump-starts some more creative ideas. And by no means is this the best or only way to solve this issue, it's just the approach I took.

I used the top half of the original '52 support and built the bottom out of 1x1 square tubing and angle iron just to box the support in - you don't want the weight of the fenders supported by the rad itself.

Once the bottom part was built, I figured out how much of a tilt I needed between the top and bottom halves to clear the steering box while still lining up with the rad support mount to the front fenders and welded 'er up. Next, I mounted the completely boxed rad support frame to the fenders, installed the grill and aligned the body work. I built the frame-to-rad brackets and welded/bolted them in to support my alignment.

The lower splash shield under the rad needed to be modified but the rest of the Suburban body is untouched from this modification.

Or, even easier... When you take the original rad in to the rad shop for a modern core, just have them build it shorter. Mount the shorter rad so it clears the steering box on the bottom and you're set. I would think that a modern 4-core rad could cool a smallblock as well as the original rad cooled the stovebolt.

TooMany, I'm curious about the 350 engine mounts and firewall clearance... I read that you used the JTR mounts, I have used them before. I thought thought of mixing and matching the "ears" before welding them up, and that would move the drivetrain back enough.

You seem to have a lot of side-to-side clearance in the front wheel wells. What's the backspacing on the front wheels you're using?

 

[advanced design]

Stinkin_V8,

Glad you weighed in on this issue as I was thinking of your project Suburban through the thread. Thanks for sharing your expertise.