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Die-Trying
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Discussion Starter #1
i had this incredibly dumb idea, a while back, and have been steadily gathering parts to make it happen..... my pile of parts has actually gotten to a point where i can almost start to see if i can pull this off.....
i am wanting to build, a low slung 4x4 model t, but i am wanting to keep the car stumpy, and NOT stretch out the frame sticking the front axle way out. i am wanting to use the axles out of a k5 blazer or squarebody chevy truck. was looking to try and build a suicide front end, but it looks like i might have to do some removing of the front pass. frame rail to let the front axle try and exist in the same spot.

the rest of the parts are going to be, a sbc(of course), a 4 speed manual, and a divorced np205 transfer case. the transfer box ought to help shift things around for some clearance of the driveshaft to frame. and i am wanting to use an original model t frame......

was hoping that some of the geezers on here(you guys are a wealth of knowlege) might be able to give some advice on how to make things work. you guys have built some impressive stuff over the years, and these challenges ought to be cake......
 

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You don't say what kind of 'T' you're building. Roadster, coupe, sedan? Keep in mind in the 1920's people were actually smaller than they are today. Consequently, cars were smaller too. My '27 roadster measures 42" wide at it's widest point.



With that said, forget about using an original 'T' frame. This is an original 'T' frame. It's thin-walled 1-1/2" x 3" and even with boxing won't be stout enough to handle an SBC/4-spd combo. I'm running a turbo'd 4cyl in mine and elected to build my own frame.



If I was to do it, I'd consider something like a Suzuki Samurai. It's a short/small 4x4. Adapt your SBC/4-spd combo to that and set the 'T' body on top of the Suzuki chassis. Whichever way you go, I hope you have a good welder and good welding skills. Good luck to you!
 

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i am wanting to build a low-slung 4x4 Model T, but i am wanting to keep the car stumpy and NOT stretch out the frame sticking the front axle way out. i am wanting to use the axles out of a k5 blazer or squarebody chevy truck. was looking to try and build a suicide front end, but it looks like i might have to do some removing of the front pass. frame rail to let the front axle try and exist in the same spot.

the rest of the parts are going to be, a sbc(of course), a 4 speed manual, and a divorced np205 transfer case. the transfer box ought to help shift things around for some clearance of the driveshaft to frame. and i am wanting to use an original model t frame......

was hoping that some of the geezers on here(you guys are a wealth of knowlege) might be able to give some advice on how to make things work. you guys have built some impressive stuff over the years, and these challenges ought to be cake......
I don't understand the idea of a "low-slung" 4x4. It would be worthless off-road and I can't see any advantage on the street, other than to say "Hey, look at my 4WD Model T". Sorry, I just don't get it.
 

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Die-Trying
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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
thanks for the reply Tech, Evintho. the reason for a low slung 4x4, is the traction advantage of the 4 wheel drive. it would be for having the ability to dead hook and leave from a standstill with no dramatics, no matter the road.

i had a blazer, had some short wide tires, and it would just leave a stoplight, no drama, no spinning, no squealing, no sideways shimmy, just bit and left. always thought it was underpowered. i had a problem with the front ujoints, and pulled the front shaft for a week while working on it. the same no dramatic leaving truck, would now spin the tires through an intersection if i put my foot in it. gave me a real appreciation for the drastic improvement that the 4 wheel drive offered .turns out the truck had plenty of power all along.

evin, its more than likely going to be a coupe, looking like a 27 tall t for now. things are not yet set in stone.
yeah, i have had a chance to run my hands over a couple of T frames, and i can honestly say that i have seen bed frames with better/stronger construction. i am going to more than likely be using motorplates front and back, and a crossmember for the trans, a crossmember for the xfer box, and a driveshaft hoop or two. i think that those OUGHT to be enough to help make the frame rigid enough...... possibly
fun looking roadster.....

this jeep is as close as i have found anywhere a picture of something similar to what i am wanting to do. IT just doesnt work and is for looks. the only other car that i have seen that came close was the jet hot roadster and i only found it long AFTER i came up with my dumb idea.



keep the good questions coming, i need honest criticism, its good to hear it......
 

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For this type of conversion, you will probably want IFS/ IRS and some sort of auto trac transfer case

Lowering a 4x4 isn't going to do anything for you..Something RWD based with AWD optional as a platform added is more along the lines of what would actually work. Charger/ Chrysler 300 for example.
 

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Die-Trying
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Discussion Starter #7
thanks Matt167, Evin. the main reason, that i am focused in on the k5/10 truck stuff, is because i KNOW that they ought to be right at the threshold of reliably holding the power that i am wanting to make. i also like the simplicity of the divorced np205 that i have laying here in the yard. it SHOULD help me to be able to move things over a bit to help things make the connection go as smooth as possible. the independent suspension would be great for an all out cornering machine, but i am more after straight line acceleration. for me simpler fewer moving parts is better.

thanks for the link Evintho, not what i am on after, but still a fun look......
this is more the look i am hunting, just 4x4....


here are a couple more pictures of that same jeep.it had a start similar to what i am wanting to do on its front suspension. but its as if they got cold feet about hacking up the grill, or couldnt figure out the frame/pinion situation and cut bait on it.



there are one or two others that i have stumbled on, but they all seem to have the front axle as a showpiece, and it will be grafted onto an axle with a removable center... i am still hoping to take this one all the way.


thanks for the replies so far,
still hoping to hear from some of them other opinionated curmudgeons, and codgers.......
 

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The pic of the red and the green lowered Jeep 4X4 with transverse leaf springs would have the drive shaft going thru the radiator and very close or interfere with the side of the engine. You would have to get creative there to make it work. Maybe move the diff center section more outboard to clear engine or move the engine /trans over for clearance. The Jet Hot example looks like the drive train would work well. The IFS looks similar to a late '90's thru mid 2000 Chevy S-10 Blazer. Cool look though. Can be done. Keep us posted on your progress.
 

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I've often thought along the same lines and have a similar project in mind.

You're going to have to give some care to the transfer case selection. A 4x4 case isn't really going to work on the street unless you only go in a straight line. You'll need a case with either a viscous couple, a differential, a controlled clutch pack or the ability to disconnect into 2wd when on pavement.

Theres a t-case used in the Grand Cherokee. NP/NV 147 I believe. It uses a clutch pack actuated by a built in gerotor pump. Half the pump is on the front output and the other on the rear output. When they don't match, the pump builds pressure and forces the clutch pack to engage which gives 4wd. That may give you what you're looking for in terms of traction that is also streetable. There are a couple cases with viscous couplers used by GM and Ford. Similar idea, but the couplers are not rebuildable and can often be pricey to replace. I think Ford's was the BW4404 and GM had one on the S10-based trucks and another on the FS trucks. I can't recall the model numbers they used but it's all google-able.


There's a guy named Steve Pierce who has built something similar to the QuadraDeuce and the Double Down roadster. Hot Rod wrote him up a couple of times. He's paved the way.

Steve Pierce’s Deuce Shakes It With All-Wheel Drive Power - Street Rodder - Hot Rod Network
Steve Pierce Builds an All-Weather Deuce - Hot Rod Network
 

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Discussion Starter #10
thanks 48austin, that has been a big reason that i had been leaning on trying to use the old divorced xfer case in the yard, was for its ability to ease the driveline over a little bit. i had also been contemplating using a carrier bearing to make the corner around the engine if it has to come down to that. seen a build posted by ckucia that had something similar in it.was planning to move everything(engine and trans) over against the drivers frame rail, and then put the rest(xfer case) over against the pass side rail and up, and try and clear the engine corner and meet the front diff. it is looking like i might need to get creative on the front frame corner, but i am not entirely there yet. but it is looking more promising.

thanks ckucia, glad you posted those links. that build is another one to help drive the imagination. its interesting in how using the independent set ups allows all the drivelines to stay entirely static(is the word i think that i was looking for?) and have them not need to move past any of the other parts around them, like exhaust or bellhousing. just SO MUCH work in building the outside suspension mounts. the carrier bearing trick they used was a nice one. good stuff, thank you. you make a real good point about needing to be able to take it out of 4wheel drive while on the street.

thanks for keeping me thinking, and on my toes guys.... i appreciate the links and the help. its all food for thought....
 

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I guess my idea may not give you the result/style you are looking for, but who knows, it might, with a bit of extra thinking:
Have you looked into using the running gear (all or only part of it) of a modern 4-wheel drive car, with viscous coupler, instead of transfer case? A car system would give you "low-slung" running gear, that fits under a real street car, instead of using big stuff from an off-roader, which is bigger/heavier. Cars such as Subaru WRC, Audi... And these cars can have real power and aftermarket support!
OK, the suicide front may be hard to do, but maybe it is an idea?...
 

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Die-Trying
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Discussion Starter #12
thanks wave1957,
i have looked AT them, but never for too long. the driveline, seems like it would be on borrowed time for what i am wanting to ask of it..... like i have said, i know the k5 stuff should be able to hold the power i am wanting to put through it. i will have to look into those viscous couplers more closely, and see if there might be a way to run a case with one of those, will have to research if there are any divorced cases....



thanks for all the good ideas.....
 
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