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At a loss for words
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I've always liked the look of a stock appearing car with 5 point harnesses for seatbelts. The problem is, they always look like they are hooked to bar from a roll cage that runs behind the front seats. Can 5 point harnesses be used without using a roll cage? Anyone out there running 5 points?
 

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5 point harnesses are mounted to the roll bar mainly beacuse most racing classes require them to mounted a certain way, the most important requirement is that the shoulder straps must be attached above or level with the shoulder of the racer and lap belts including crotch strap must be bolted to the floor with grade 8 fasteners and have load spreading washers to prevent pullout.

That being said you have a myriad number of options to choose from when designing your own street setup, the important thing to remember is it is your butt on the line and I personally don't like to take a chance on redesigning the wheel. The reason for the shoulder belts attachment being level or above the shoulders is to prevent spinal compression during a crash, very important!

If you were willing to fabricate a seat frame that you could attach a nascar style seat to, you could attach the belts to that. Of course to make a crash worthy frame that the seat attaches to is probably going to take up more room than a roll bar would, not impossible but not too practical either. You could go to the roof but then the roof would need reinforcement, something like a rollbar would stiffen that up nicely. I think you can see where this is going, now you can see why no one has 5 point belts without a roll bar, it is not safe or practical to do it any other way. Perhaps some other members have seen a setup where this was incorporated into the design of the car?
 

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I agree with 4jaw. Dont try and mount the belts over the top of the seat and down to the floor ...its way to long of a belt. We allways mounted them to the cage of the car. This is one of those gray area.s that you really need to thing about. Heck they used to date our belts and we had to throw them away(or reweb.same diff)every 2 years. It amazes me that pass belts are used for over 20 years and guys will just redie them. I dont have and answer for that either.
 

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How do they mount the shoulder strap on convertibles? I wonder if the shoulder belts were ran through a loop or the top of the seat would that stop the spine copression? I am trying to come up with a way to put them in my MGB as well. Any thoughts Also real dumb question How do you use the Graemlins?
 

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Lost in the 60's
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The factory shoulder belts are installed in the top of the seats on my 99 Z-71. The retractors are mounted in the seat tops next to the headrest.
 

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Hey Joe if you click on search and then enter Instant Graemlins you should find an old post on them. Or check the history of topics in RBBO general questions I think it's in there but back quite a ways (maybe 60-90 days).

[ May 04, 2002: Message edited by: dmorris1200 ]</p>
 

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Joe, The '99 to current Mustangs have the upper seat belt retractors in the rear panels. They are probably attached to some reinforcment equivelant to the roll/side impact reinforcement they put in cars. They come out of a slot in the panel and run through a loop/guide bolted on to the headrest that positions the belt directly over your shoulder. They have an S shaped slit to allow the belt to be dropped so someone can have access to the back seat easily. That would be hard to do in a car not designed to have the retractors inside the panels. Try a company called Julianos for aftermarket seat belts. They have a 3 point retractable system for around 30-35 dollars for each side. One end hard mounts at the top and runs through a sliding buckle and to retractable mount on the floor. The problem is that some seats don't allow enough room on the sides for the retractors. They are about 2.5 inches wide. But the system is already put together and you could mount the upper side on a rear panel with reinforcement underneath it somehow and run the shoulder belt through a homemade guide that attaches to your headrest. Good luck with this, I suggest that you just don't get in a wreck and you won't need them. I have a 3 point retractable system from Juilianos on my classic but it is a coupe and already had reinforcement ready. I won't need them because I'll soon have a 6 point rollcage to bolt my 5 points to but the Julianos were nice to have for reassurance.
 

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is this threar too old? hehe

Hi, i posted the below message elsewhere, and just thought i try it here too. If the below message sounds familiar, sorry for the repeat.

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I too have this same request. I got a 66 comet (2 dr sedan with rear seats) and currently have lap belts all the way around. My desire is to have 3 or 4 pt seat belts all around BUT without a roll bar and preserving the rear seating.
Now a question. My daily driver truck (02 avalanche) has seats with an integrated seat belt shoulder harness (just like that guys 99 z-71). So the seat belt is essentially "bolted" to the seat back. Apparently, for these seats DOT approves it and probably safe as anything. Also, I've seen alot of convertible cars with the same type integrated seats. Ive read from folks here that bolting the 4pt harness to the floor is bad news, bolting it to the seat is bad, ....but how do these integrated seats work?
So, my idea is why not buy a racing seat and just bolt the shoulder parts up to the top/back part of the seat. Assuming these racing seats are just as strong as these OEM seats...they better be, seeing as they are called "racing" seats.
Or another idea is to go to my junkyard and find used seats with these integrated seat belt should harness and just put those into my 66 comet. A 3 pt selt belt is certainly better than a lap belt
 

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Just answered another post on 4 point belts. One serious consideration for you Joe is that you are really held in place with a 5 point. I have a 4 point in my 74 Corvette and can't hardly touch the dash. If you were to roll the MG you would be stuck in the upright position in your seat. A friend or mine had studded tires on his MG and slid of a corner and rolled it into a pasture. He was able to lean over into the passenger seat to avoid getting decapitated. Without a roll bar a harness would be too dangerous. :thumbup:
 

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Chuck covered it......


You might could attatch them to the floor and use some kind of hoop up high behind the seat to avoid the spinal compression, but mounting to the top of the car is not a good idea since it will likely be "adjusted" in a crash.

Chris
 

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the lowerst point ive ever seen them installed is where rear seat belts attach, so to say in the crack in the rear seat. that way you wont be squished in a crash. it will however limit the use of the rear seat. (remember to mount them to a frame travers or somthing rigid in the floor, not just sheetmetal)
 

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At a loss for words
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Discussion Starter #13
I'm going to be using 4 or 5 point harnesses in my dune buggy. We are building a roll cage for it (safety first you know! :D ) so we can run a bar about shoulder height or so and mount the straps to that. Otherwise, I think I need to keep the factory belts in my other projects so that I can still use the back seat.
 
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