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"Don't need no V/8"-grandpaw
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Discussion Starter #1
Howdy,got 57 Ranchwagon 351w-aod ,p/s kit by GEARHEADS CRUIZER . Car wanders bad front end has new ball joints,BF T/A.Alined by good FEnd shop.No responce off center,won't return to center,hard to keep in lane at speed.Part of kit was presure control valve.Turned down for less asist drives better around town.Locks up on left turn,prety sure gearbox at fault.Vendor woun't respond to my calls or emails.Can any one give me some ideas?/Help tom
 

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If it won't return to center the fault could be in the box or in the geometry What came in the power steering kit?
Have you checked the linkages for binding? while the suspension is at ride height? Is there any exhaust rubbing?

You said the car had an FEA? Did you get a spec sheet when it was done?

Is the box centered properly? The wheels have to be in the straight ahead when the box is positioned on it's "hard spot" in the center of its rotation, otherwise your car will wander.

A faulty box can cause all of the problems you have, but you should check the rest of your front end. Was that box rebuilt? I have seen junkyard boxes not work right if they came from a car that took a hit to the front wheels, and forced the box past the stops. Also if someone tried to "adjust" a worn box to get the freeplay out, and it is TOO worn, they won't return to center properly and will be sticky in their operation.

Also a box that is not mounted right can get bound up. I saw a car that had a 605 box mounted on a vega mount. The stands were too short and flexed the case until it got sticky.

I would see if you can try another box to see if it is in the box.

Hope this helps, mikey
 

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aka Duke of URL
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grandpaws 57 said:
57 Ranchwagon 351w-aod ,p/s kit by GEARHEADS CRUIZER . Car wanders bad front end has new ball joints,BF T/A.Alined by good FEnd shop.No responce off center,won't return to center,hard to keep in lane at speed.Part of kit was presure control valve.Turned down for less asist drives better around town.Locks up on left turn,prety sure gearbox at fault.Vendor woun't respond to my calls or emails.Can any one give me some ideas?/Help tom
This is the GEARHEADS 605 Conversion Box the gentleman is describing allows one to install integral power steering on an early FORD that used the Saginaw external assist before. I have heard of another complaint but the poster would not go into detail.

Before you blame the box, I would check idler arm bearings (these are a pain and many use later arms with integral brngs) and maybe double check caster settings.

You may want to disconnect the drag link from the pitman arm to check for any binding in the box itself. Did they recommend a Saginaw pump or just the adjustment valve?

Did you perform the required 58 steering column upgrade?

You may have to go so far as to follow the procedure outlined in a shop manual as to mounting special pressure gauges to the system to see if the hydraulics are working properly.

Their not responding has me worried as a friend wants this conversion on his CUSTOM 300.

Please keep us informed.
 

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aka Duke of URL
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grandpaws 57

Listen...

Go to this website... http://www.squarebirds.org/dcforum/DCForumID1/1029.html ... and scroll down until you see a post made by 63tbirdrick.

He has had problems with his installation also and he may be able to help you with it. Just E-MAIL or PM him directly from the site. Please keep me (us) informed as to how you progress. If it is a bad product, I need to know.

THANX... :welcome:
___________________________________________

[highlight]Am Looking For Factory/Aftermarket Speed Parts For The MEL (MERC-EDSEL-LINC-TBIRD) Engine Family (383-410-430-462) Produced From 1958 To 1968

Also Early FORD Special Service Tools[/highlight]

If you need a tool and don't buy it, you'll soon find that you've paid for it and don't have it. -Henry Ford

-Mercury-Edsel-Lincoln Engine Forum
 

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"Don't need no V/8"-grandpaw
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Discussion Starter #5
responce from Gearheads

Heard from Gearheads yesterday,they have had health problems.Hope problem works out in the future.
 

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I'm not an expert, so don't take my response as such. In past posts and articles elsewhere, that symptom seem like that of a toe problem. I was just reading in the lastet issue of Hot Rod where a guy put a straight axle on a 55 Olds. He had wandering problems even though the alignment was spot on. Someone suggested adding more toe, that solved his problem. In addition, again from reading elsewhere, where the wheel doesn't return, is due to improper toe. One last thing, these alignment specs were when cars used bias ply tires and not radials. Talking with a friend of mine who does road racing, said radials need more caster then bias.
 

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I was thinking the same think.Whenever a customer speaks of the car hunts or wanders.It,s the front tires toed out.I only deal with factory cars,nothing modified.
 

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"Don't need no V/8"-grandpaw
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Discussion Starter #10
57 p/s conversion

Thanks for your responce,the car has had much more caster dialed in,best f-end shop in area.Box also locks up mostly on left turns.I won't go into details here,still talking to vendorl about replacing box.
 

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Sacred Steel
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KULTULZ said:
grandpaws 57

Listen...

Go to this website... http://www.squarebirds.org/dcforum/DCForumID1/1029.html ... and scroll down until you see a post made by 63tbirdrick.

That post was from me. (Different name, used to have a 63) I am having same issues as grandpaws57. The locking up is pretty bad and dangerous. I doubt its the installation if the two boxes are in different types of cars and having same problems. At first they said that the fluid temperature is getting too hot and causing the tollerances to close up and to add a cooler to the system. I did this and the problem did not go away so i added another cooler and the problem is still there but not as bad. This is basically fixing the symptom and not fixing the problem. Gearheads seems reluctant to respond to these issues for some reason. I am hoping to get this resolved soon as my summer cruzin plans went out the window in a hurry.
 

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aka Duke of URL
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60tbirdrick said:
At first they said that the fluid temperature is getting too hot and causing the tollerances to close up and to add a cooler to the system. I did this and the problem did not go away so i added another cooler and the problem is still there but not as bad.

This is basically fixing the symptom and not fixing the problem. Gearheads seems reluctant to respond to these issues for some reason. I am hoping to get this resolved soon as my summer cruzin plans went out the window in a hurry.
Awfully expensive add-on not to work properly or bring much interest from the vendor.

Please keep us informed if you can. Usually, hot fluid just leads to seal deterioation. If the thing is locking up, I would think there is something wrong in the way they adapted the housing leading to some type of binding inside.

Have you come across other complaints?
 

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"Don't need no V/8"-grandpaw
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Discussion Starter #13
other complaints

I for one thought I just had a bad box. I guess it feels good to not be alone.THIS IS A SAFETY ISSUE !!! This problem has ruined my summer,with AOD gets 20mpg , and I planed several trips. I doin't know how many people have had a good outcome,but, our problem remains.
 

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aka Duke of URL
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Comparing Notes From Another Thread

Below Excerpts From -Power Steering Won't Return To Center Thread-

For years modified 605 steering boxes were the only option for 55-57 Chevies. Everyone had the same complaints; no road feel (overpowered) and uncomfortable at speed because the box would not return to straight ahead.

No one ever found a cure for the problems. Tri five owners are converting to CPP's power unit based on 670 internal components and one that is 600 Saginaw based as well as power rack and pinion setups.
...what about the power steering pump pressure? do you think it might just be providing to much pressure all the time.

You said you put the manual box back on and tried it with no problems. Well what about disconnecting the pump and drain most of the fluid from the pump, and then try it with the power box.
FORD used the Saginaw box a great deal in addition to the FORD box in the seventies. The suggestion of pump pressure makes sense as most current conversions (box and rack) call for the use of a Saginaw pump or a pressure reduction valve which in turns seems to create the same problems, I would imagine due to decreased fluid flow resulting from trying to reduce the operating pressure of the FORD pump (whether EATON, THOMPSON or C-II).

FORD used this pump on the seventies intermediates and had to use the Saginaw pump for Hydro-Boost applications. This had to have something to do with pressure/volume.

The suggestion above calling for removing the assist feature (I would simply remove the drive belt) and seeing how the box performs while driving it without assist makes sense (make sure you have a double ration of Cheerios).

A problem such as this requires a diagnostic pressure gauge to isolate one system from another and to analize any problem within the system, whether assist or mechanical. The procedure is described in any seventies shop manual. You would have to research the required operating pressure of the origional box installation and then try to shim the relief valve in the pump to meet those specs it seems to me.

The above is just conjecture but it might be an option as it seems the vendor has no idea of what is going on (or does and won't own up to it) (one expensive recall).
_____________________________________________

[highlight]Am Looking For Factory/Aftermarket Speed Parts For The MEL (MERC-EDSEL-LINC-TBIRD) Engine Family (383-410-430-462) Produced From 1958 To 1968

Also Early FORD Special Service Tools[/highlight]

-Mercury-Edsel-Lincoln Engine Forum
 

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"Don't need no V/8"-grandpaw
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Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
605 box

I finally heard from a retired FE shop owner.He had an hot rod align shop.He said 605 boxes are junk! I wish I talked to him before I did the deal.Vendor must be aware of lockup problem,may not know a fix. Summer's almost gone ......!!!! As for driving with no boost, hard to do with modifyed steering colume.
 

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A manual 525 box will bolt right in and the ratio is numerically higher, so the steering is fairly easy.

We never did get the power 605 box referred to in that other thread to work how it should. we tried readjusting it after several thousand miles and got nowhere. I think it is internal friction by design .

The 525 boxes are found in many 60's and 70's midsize gm manuall applications. Camaro and chevelle, some pickups also.

I don't know if this helps, but thought I'd put it out there anyway.

later, mikey
 

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aka Duke of URL
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grandpaws 57 said:
I finally heard from a retired FE shop owner. He had an hot rod align shop.He said 605 boxes are junk! I wish I talked to him before I did the deal. Vendor must be aware of lockup problem,may not know a fix.

Summer's almost gone ......!!!!

As for driving with no boost, hard to do with modifyed steering colume.
KULTULZ previously said:
The suggestion above calling for removing the assist feature (I would simply remove the drive belt) and seeing how the box performs while driving it without assist makes sense (make sure you have a double ration of Cheerios).
This suggestion was only for possible diagnosing. If without the assist, the steering improved, it would much more likely to be a box defect. Not meant to attempt and drive it that way... :pain:
 

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"Don't need no V/8"-grandpaw
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Discussion Starter #18
No assist driving

Thanks for responce to all.I am afraid to drive with no assist,if and when box locks up,then may have a real problem steering!!!! This happens when driven for a distence,can't be perdicated.!!!!!!
 

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On the one post,the guy said he added a second cooler and it helped.I don,t see how it could be heat.But what about volume.Could it be not enough in the reserve and adding a second cooler would add more fluid to the system?Is it only at cruising speed?Maybe a larger pulley to slow it down?
 

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"Don't need no V/8"-grandpaw
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Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
heat in p/s

Thanks again for responce,going to measure temp next time .Heat expands parts,some at a different rates.Get's hot enought you can't touch it.The more I hear bout 605 boxes,the better I understand the problem!!! Checked temp of p/s fluid ,not a hot day,140-150 degrees.I am sure it gets hotter. Still locks up turning left.
 
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