[49panelsteven]

anyone who has experience in putting power brakes on a econoline? i haven brand new master cal from mustang over here, but seeing the installation i don't know if it is the best way to go for that matter. so if there is someone who can help me with tips or tricks, always welcome... thx in advance.

ps the reason for power brakes is the up coming V8 engine 289 or 351 that is going to be installed.

keep building them nice machines, europe simply loves them!!

 

[LATECH]

Is the master cylinder below the floor?


IIRC it is.


Chances are a Hydra boost would be the way to go for power brakes.

 

[69612]

have you seen this site..

D & D Disc brake kits, convert your econoline drum brakes to our disc brake kit for a great price

How to guide to install D & D Disc brake kits, convert your econoline drum brakes to our disc brake kit for a great price

do you intend on creating a new way to pivot a new brake pedal.. as the master is fairly close to the floor..

getting rid of the single system for a dual system..

could you modify a single master into a pushrod guide to mount a small diameter power brake booster and conventional master farther back.

i love the idea of the hydroboost... if it will fit..

i think there might have been a different dog house for V8 models.

don't forget... you are going to need to change the rear end.. 8 or 9" versions.. you are going to have to change wheel cylinder size several times on the rears to get the brake bias close for the weight change you are going to do.. larger wheel cylinder bores increase rear brake bias to make the rear tires skid at the same time as the fronts... smaller rear wheel cylinder bores reduce the rear wheels from skidding before the front brakes.

please also verify that your king pin bushings are tight. that was an issue on a good friends 63/4 with 67 dual master on it and a 250/C4/8" swap.. had an issue of the harmonic damper pulley bumping the top of the I beam axle. he sold it to a guy who painted it up like the scooby doo van..

 

[Crosley]

Difficulty with Econoline brakes is; the pedal is mounted to the master cylinder. One piece casting

 

[49panelsteven]

thank you for the answer. when i bought my 66 it already came with a 300straight six, c6 auto trans and 9 inch rear end. wheel cyl are already upgraded. so guess lot of work is done already. but still very useful reply thx

 

[49panelsteven]

Difficulty with Econoline brakes is; the pedal is mounted to the master cylinder. One piece casting

i one it would take some thinking and fabricating, but seems to work.

 

[69612]

wait... there is a 300 6 and you want to take that out for a 302 V8...

the 300 6 is a far better van motor than the V8..

only issue is the carburetors availablity for the single barrel intake. if its running bad.. that is where to look..

i have wanted to use 4150/4160 float bowl and metering block to build a single barrel carb.. have even thought of plugging passages in a 2300 carb so its a single barrel only.. that is probably easier.. some epoxy or lead solder mashed into the passages... a tight fitting plug up the venturi... a chunk of lead in the main jet opening. plugging one of the idle feed restrictions.. this could allow somebody to do either side to make the linkage work.. heck.. there were even 2305 staged two barrel models..

these are just thoughts. there are even port fuel injected versions of the 300 six ford.. the one in my 96 even uses crank trigger ignition..

the dual cast iron exhaust manifolds should also retrofit.. i would love a set of short tube headers for mine. i am on a third set of exhaust manifolds in 530K+ miles on the stock short block.. heck.. the E4OD in mine lasted to 475K..

 

[49panelsteven]

;running a double barrel weber on mine. just have the impression it is worn out. missing lots of torque and hi end power

 

[69612]

;running a double barrel weber on mine. just have the impression it is worn out. missing lots of torque and hi end power

compression test first..
perhaps a cylinder leak down test if the compression is low. on some cylinders..

manifold vacuum reading with a large short hose.. slowly accelerate to verify an increase of manifold vacuum not a drop with slow increase of the engine speed.

ignition system check.. got electronic?? is the mechanical advance seized.. is the vacuum advance working. burned cap and rotor.. high voltage leaking from ignition coil.. timing check... timing check at 2800 RPMs.. using advance dial to take it back to base timing spec to see how much advance there really is..

air filter check.. carb inspection.. debris in the main jets will cause horrible issues.. the little 32/36 weber /5200 holley is really kinda small for a 300 six.. i had a friend with motorcraft version on his fairmont.. previous mechanics and carb shops had swapped it out for a different model.. screwed up the jetting and air bleeds so bad it would just barely run.. they fixed the EGR valve by drilling out the restriction.. with the egr hooked up it opened up to a full 1/2" bore flow rather than less than 3/16 restriction. i found the last new carb still sealed in plastic.. then it worked great. .

 

[49panelsteven]

compression test first..
perhaps a cylinder leak down test if the compression is low. on some cylinders..

manifold vacuum reading with a large short hose.. slowly accelerate to verify an increase of manifold vacuum not a drop with slow increase of the engine speed.

ignition system check.. got electronic?? is the mechanical advance seized.. is the vacuum advance working. burned cap and rotor.. high voltage leaking from ignition coil.. timing check... timing check at 2800 RPMs.. using advance dial to take it back to base timing spec to see how much advance there really is..

air filter check.. carb inspection.. debris in the main jets will cause horrible issues.. the little 32/36 weber /5200 holley is really kinda small for a 300 six.. i had a friend with motorcraft version on his fairmont.. previous mechanics and carb shops had swapped it out for a different model.. screwed up the jetting and air bleeds so bad it would just barely run.. they fixed the EGR valve by drilling out the restriction.. with the egr hooked up it opened up to a full 1/2" bore flow rather than less than 3/16 restriction. i found the last new carb still sealed in plastic.. then it worked great. .

so... just a few questions. why do you say the 300 is better than the v8? does it last longer? is it stronger? i see you try to explain very well, but excuse me, being not my language some i don't really understand, takes me some time to look up the specifics.

but if i understand right, you say that the weber is not big enough for the 300? not enough gas/air ratio? i have it closed on the co screw very much to make it run nice.

maybe i'll try to explain first what i'm experiencing: curb throttle is ok. torque is ok enough. when i push on the throttle, i hear the weber sucking in air, but when pushing it far i hear like a valve rattling (comp when sucking on a straw, glas as good as completely empty.) than some smoke exits the engine via the exhaust. doing about 60 Mph the engine makes a big noise( maybe because its position) consuming some oil. and 75Mph would be about max i will go because of noise and my mecanics feeling says me to stop there.

also when heated up, the starter motor seems to have lots more issues to crank the motor. (compression going up maybe..)

as i heard, just like most of the econolines, mine also runs pretty warm. new waterpump, no thermostat... but new radiator is coming next week.

so now what do you think? i don't now how many miles my engine has done already. will ask my friend tonight to do a compression test, maybe that will tell some more

 

[49panelsteven]

i just installed the mustang brake booster and master cl on my car. running four drums. thinking about a conversion to discs when not satisfied about the result. the master brake cyl has a dual bowl. do i have to install a splitter or a metering valve blok, (on 4xdrum)

 

[69612]

when i push on the throttle, i hear the weber sucking in air, but when pushing it far i hear like a valve rattling (comp when sucking on a straw, glas as good as completely empty.) than some smoke exits the engine via the exhaust.

doing about 60 Mph the engine makes a big noise( maybe because its position) consuming some oil. and 75Mph would be about max i will go because of noise and my mechanics feeling says me to stop there.

also when heated up, the starter motor seems to have lots more issues to crank the motor. (compression going up maybe..)

first step... the Rattle.. on acceleration.. could it be pinging.. too much advance too soon.. perhaps lack of fuel flow and the engine running lean and pinging.

i would want to use a timing light with an advance knob.. and a tachometer.. a vacuum gauge is going to help also.. along with some fittings. perhaps a hand vacuum pump.. this is for diagnostic charting of the timing curve only..

distributor vacuum disconnected.. what is the base timing set at .. and at what RPM. slowly increase the engine speed till it stops moving.. at what speed does the centrifical stop advancing, write that rpm number down. you also want to write down how many degrees it advanced.. you will want to do this twice.. once with the timing light knob on Zero and you will bring the knob to move the light to TDC. .. the other with the advance knob set to bring the advance at idle to zero. this is double checking.

now.. do the vacuum advance. start slowly applying vacuum till the advance starts moving. note the vacuum reading.. you can do this at idle.. you don't have to it for more than a few seconds.. then apply 5 inches of vacuum.. see how far it advanced.. apply 10 inches of vacuum and see how far it advanced.. do 15 inches of vacuum.. see how far it advanced..

you can see what maxium advance..

you might want to Tee into the vacuum advance hose and put the vacuum gauge up in the window so you could see how much vacuum you get to the advance driving around..

this is all diagnostic stuff.. its up to you if you want to perform this.. it usually takes 20 to 30 minutes to do this..

next... a voltage drop test..

http://i.imgur.com/WMDprhm.jpg

i am going to ask that you create a extra test wire.

Ring terminal... wire------------------ female bullet connector..
this allows you to measure voltage drop at the starter motor really easily.. so after you have performed the other six steps.. step 5 goes to the starter relay on the inner fender or actually in the dog house in your van..

test 2, 3, 4 should be done a second time while starting/cranking the engine..

the custom 16 gauge wire from the starter to the digital volt meter set to 20 volts DC.. the other test lead hooked to the positive battery terminal.. i would love to see less than 1.0 volts while cranking.. i would expect to see less than 2 volts.. if you have more than that.. you need to go thicker on the positive cables..

you can do test 2 while cranking to check the negative cables.


there is a COLD engine test to perform.. disable the ignition system. disconnect the fuel line into the carb.. stick it in a clean clear plastic soda bottle.. have somebody crank the engine for 15 seconds while you observe the pulses of fuel... again this is a diagnostic test as these all are.. if your fuel pulses diminish or just are not as full as you think they should be.. you may need to go farther.. to find out why..

i usually blow into the fuel line.. i should not be able to blow backwards thru the pump and should not be able to blow bubbles in the fuel tank.

these are all tests that i do sometimes daily..

i can explain why for each test.. more than i have.

 

[LATECH]

;running a double barrel weber on mine. just have the impression it is worn out. missing lots of torque and hi end power

Probably not calibrated in the enrichment (power valve ) circuit for a big ol 300.That may be why it is lazy.

Carter YF carbs were OK. Probably the best/easiest option.By a reman.
Also need to be sure dizzy is working correctly.Vacuum advance and mechanical advance are paramount for performance and economy.




An EFI setup (multiport) would be Ideal. My old 90 F 150 with the 300 had gobs of torque and ran well, until I lunched the motor.

 

[75gmck25]

49panelsteven - There are many articles out there that describe why folks really like the Ford 300 six cylinder. This is one example that discusses the durability and power that everyone likes.
Top 10 Engines of All Time (#4): Ford 300 I6 - OnAllCylinders

Bruce

 

[49panelsteven]

ok gentleman, i know that 300 is a very good engine, but i need my car to go at least 150 km/h, should bee about 95Mph. and if i take it to germany on the autobahn, with no restrictions, i wouldn't mind going faster . so tell me i can easily do that without breaking the 300 i will keep it in. otherwise i think there is only one option and that is the v8 way...

 

[69612]

wait a second... you want to make your econoline van go over 95 miles an hour.

i hope you are including some kind of double tube roll over cage behind and above the driver.

you are going to need to identify the carb exactly.. not just a brand..

you will need significantly larger secondary jets ... i looked around last night and there only seems to be one power valve and that would need some creative way to increase its flow..

you can get a 4 barrel intake.. use a adapter and run a holley 500 CFM 2barrel carb.. a 390 4 barrel .. one of the motorcraft/autolite 2100 carbs.. one of the summit 8600 carbs as those have fairly easily changes idle feed restrictions.. so you could fine tune the part throttle to get better fuel economy out of it at lower speeds..

please install a Vacuum gauge using a short section of vacuum hose to get it out of the dog house.. and then rigid 3/16 nylon line to get it up to the dashboard... if your manifold vacuum starts increasing as you reach higher speeds.. you may have issues of it leaning out.

i think you are going to need to look at caster settings on the front I Beam.. perhaps adding tapered shims.. to increase it.. you are going to want to rebuild the steering box and carefully set the worm gear preload... probably have the case where the pitman shaft comes out checked carefully for clearance and rebushed. that is a LOT of speed for that van with a straight axle and long linkage rods.. i would want to be careful to not get into a death wobble situation . . i guess i am too cautious ..

so... shove a V8 in it..

you may also want to stick some fittings for dual reading pressure gauges or wire up some GM fuel tank pressure sensors for their super fine output for minute changes in pressure or vacuum to monitor the air flow in front of the radiator and behind it.. that speed will need to verify enough ram air thru the radiator to avoid overheating..

just random thinking late at night..

 

[49panelsteven]

wait a second... you want to make your econoline van go over 95 miles an hour.

i hope you are including some kind of double tube roll over cage behind and above the driver.

you are going to need to identify the carb exactly.. not just a brand..

you will need significantly larger secondary jets ... i looked around last night and there only seems to be one power valve and that would need some creative way to increase its flow..

you can get a 4 barrel intake.. use a adapter and run a holley 500 CFM 2barrel carb.. a 390 4 barrel .. one of the motorcraft/autolite 2100 carbs.. one of the summit 8600 carbs as those have fairly easily changes idle feed restrictions.. so you could fine tune the part throttle to get better fuel economy out of it at lower speeds..

please install a Vacuum gauge using a short section of vacuum hose to get it out of the dog house.. and then rigid 3/16 nylon line to get it up to the dashboard... if your manifold vacuum starts increasing as you reach higher speeds.. you may have issues of it leaning out.

i think you are going to need to look at caster settings on the front I Beam.. perhaps adding tapered shims.. to increase it.. you are going to want to rebuild the steering box and carefully set the worm gear preload... probably have the case where the pitman shaft comes out checked carefully for clearance and rebushed. that is a LOT of speed for that van with a straight axle and long linkage rods.. i would want to be careful to not get into a death wobble situation . . i guess i am too cautious ..

so... shove a V8 in it..

you may also want to stick some fittings for dual reading pressure gauges or wire up some GM fuel tank pressure sensors for their super fine output for minute changes in pressure or vacuum to monitor the air flow in front of the radiator and behind it.. that speed will need to verify enough ram air thru the radiator to avoid overheating..

just random thinking late at night..

surely appreciate you thinking with me

my plans are/were:

for the roll cage, this would be outside the cab (since its a pick up) putting a rail on top of the bed, coming up just behind the cab.

the part of the air flow: i am thinking of cutting the floor inside of the cab (middle part, just in front of the radiator) to make a tunnel that is twice as big as the original, this way i use 75% of the radiator surface iso the standard 25% surface that is in the wind flow.

for the steering and camber issue, i am stil figuring that out. i saw one van using a gm steering column with a kind of gear box inverting the direction of steering and using not an pitman arm bur a rack and pinion on what i think mustang 2 independent front end. (off course that is a lot of work.) second option is to rebuild my original steering system and using an adapted axle from sids dropped axles with new leaf springs...

now i don't want to build a monster machine for a drag race course. i just would like that easy drivable car that i can take on the highway, running in a comfortable way at 110/115 Kph and if i want to pass a a car or tuck i just want that little extra to do that. right now i can already do that, i'm just expieriencing that my motor is running relative high RPM at cruising, with oil consumption if i push it to 110KPH for like 30 minutes. (1 quarts if i push it for 60 miles on the highway) and the 110 is about top speed i can get before i feel that the engine is starting to get 'hurting'. at 110kph see is handling vering good when it comes to drivebility, only hard breaking is bad at this speeds. hope to have solved that with the dual bowl power brake i installed last week. have to test that still, missing the the linkage for front left an right brake line. (surely keep you posted on that)

but first of all, today i am going to look up how fast the f150 can go with the 300. because i also adore the six in my car. only thing is rebuilding a pony engine is fairly cheap overhere, rebuilding the 300 is expensive since not much motors like this are in europe...

 

[OldTech]

Is this vehicle a van or a truck? Either way I would be concerned with the aerodynamics of any vehicle going over 95 mph (with some notable exceptions). Air getting under the vehicle can lift it enough to cause problems. The drag on the front end can push the vehicle all over the road. You need more than HP to travel at speed safely.

 

[49panelsteven]

Is this vehicle a van or a truck? Either way I would be concerned with the aerodynamics of any vehicle going over 95 mph (with some notable exceptions). Air getting under the vehicle can lift it enough to cause problems. The drag on the front end can push the vehicle all over the road. You need more than HP to travel at speed safely.

i know there is a lot of difference in the way of driving between europe and america, now you see, over here we don't worry that much about going fast, probably 75% of the drivers are speeding all the time, doing between 80 and 100 on a daily base. being an aircraft engineer, i know something about aerodynamics, not all, to be clear about that. 95 mph will not make a lot of difference compared to 75 specially when the car is raised enough, so no windtunnel is produced underneath like on a flat bottomed racing car... still i'm aware about changes in driving, steering braking and such.

anyhow thx for your interest and concerns

 

[49panelsteven]

today i checked some stuff on my engine. there is a double exhaust header installed, and what seems to be the original intake header, with a 38/38 degressive weber carb. following the tips over here, i've decided to keep the six, and rebuild it. maybe put the offenhouser or cliffords intake with the efi headers (mine start to be rusty). have my head removed, and will check if needed to do some valve work on it. put new waterpump and radiator.

so now:

do i put an electric fuel pump?
would it be good to do decking on my head?
alu or standard radiator.?
electric or standard fan for cooling?

thx for tips and tricks in advance
steven