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Hi, I need help with a 1967 Pontiac Firebird water pump, well the divider plates behind it, in particular. I have searched the posts for this problem and haven't found anything on the 67 400.

I have the 8 bolt water pump used prior to 1968. It has two steel plates in the timing cover behind the water pump. The 68 used 1 divider plate and also had 2 additional rubber gaskets that assisted ins both sealing and alignment of the divider plate.

When I disassembled the water pump it was missing the oil slinger, if it was indeed used in the 67, so I am wondering what else may be missing.

I have a new water pump and the veins are within clearance specs from the divider plate.

Upon pre-assembly, using the parts I have, (the pump, then the gasket, then the 2 divider plates installed in the timing cover) the divider plates float inside the timing cover and rattle, big time. There must be a way to secure them in the proper position while insuring sufficient sealing. (Here is where the rubber O rings from the 68 would come in handy, if they had fit). It wasn't overheating (or rattling) before this procedure.

Has anyone out there dealt with this? Am I missing something?

Here is what I'm thinking of doing. I'm thinking about bending a very small portion of the outer edge of one of the plates, in a few strategic places, to cause it to bind as the water pump bolts are drawn down, eliminating the rattle. Or, maybe someone has used a thin rope seal glued around the edges of the plates to both seal them for optimum water flow and secure them in place?

What do you think?

Oh, Thanks in advance to a great bunch.
 

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I put this plate setup in my cuzzins 69 F Bird. I did tweek the plates a little, here and there.
There is no "Oil Slinger" .The pump has an impeller that spins to createflow.The impeller can be cast or stamped steel.Both work well if the plates are adjusted.
I prefer the cast impellers myself.To each his own.
Getting the plate with the large hole for the impeller surround is the more important issue.If you study it carefully it splits the flow between the left andright inlets of the timing cover.That plate needs to be "adjusted " to be well centered on the impeller.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
"water pump housing" and divider set may solve this issue - hopefully

Thanks everyone for truly stellar professionalism on this board.
After posting this question, I did find a related post (it was for a 72 455 with an early housing). I received some great response. It's worth a read on the subject. HERE: http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/pontiac-455-water-pump-install-142520.html#post2025385

To paraphrase, I received confirmation that I indeed had all the parts in fairly good condition minus a dowel pin. I decided to go with a good quality "water pump housing" and divider set and see where my clearances are.

I also received an "Antique Pontiac Tip Of The Day" (link provided above)regarding my missing timing cover alignment dowel, the lack of which may cause front seal failure.

Oh Hey! Great pics. Thanks

Thanks All


I hope further replies will be posted here and be considered recent relevant information. I would quote all the additional info here but I'm afraid that might be against the rules.
 

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did you figure it out?

I have a 68 gto with the two divider plates behind it. 8 bolt water pump. I have the exact same issue with the divider plates. They won't stay in the correct place, and probably are restricting water flow. Did you figure out what to do about that?
 

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On my 64, I laid the timing cover on its back, and assembled mine.
There is no "Pin" that holds anything in place , at least that I am aware of. The timing cover has dowels in it where it aligns with the front of the motor, but nothing for the pump AFAIK.
Isuppose one could put the plates together and spot weld them in 3-4 places, then stick them on the timing cover, then use weatherstrip adhesive to glue the pump gasket on, in front of them.Then once the glue sets, and the plates will lay still, bolt the pump on.
 

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Lynn (LATECH) has it right. True on the '68. Unique timing cover, old pump, later balancer. Early '69 used a shorter 11-bolt pump (4" from flange to hub). Later are all the same, 4 1/2" through the end of production in '81.

Use a little RTV (a "dot) to hold the plates together. Let them lean out with the gap at the top. Slowly slide the pump against the bottom. When it hits the gasket (no glue), finger-tighten one of the bottom nuts.

A little trimming is needed for the reproduction pieces, but only a little. Stainless are available from Ames and are desired.

Jim
 

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If you look at the pics, you can see where I trimmed a little from the plates with a grinder. :)
 

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Did it WORK?

I realize this is an old post, so I hope you're still on the board. I'm wondering what your final solution was? I have a 66 GTO with a 67 400 engine & am experiencing the same kind of "rattle" you mention. I have located the dividers (aluminum) for a reasonable price, but it you were able to "crimp" them somehow to get them to seat & stop the float/rattle, I'd like to know that before I purchase the replacements. Thanks!

Hi, I need help with a 1967 Pontiac Firebird water pump, well the divider plates behind it, in particular. I have searched the posts for this problem and haven't found anything on the 67 400.

I have the 8 bolt water pump used prior to 1968. It has two steel plates in the timing cover behind the water pump. The 68 used 1 divider plate and also had 2 additional rubber gaskets that assisted ins both sealing and alignment of the divider plate.

When I disassembled the water pump it was missing the oil slinger, if it was indeed used in the 67, so I am wondering what else may be missing.

I have a new water pump and the veins are within clearance specs from the divider plate.

Upon pre-assembly, using the parts I have, (the pump, then the gasket, then the 2 divider plates installed in the timing cover) the divider plates float inside the timing cover and rattle, big time. There must be a way to secure them in the proper position while insuring sufficient sealing. (Here is where the rubber O rings from the 68 would come in handy, if they had fit). It wasn't overheating (or rattling) before this procedure.

Has anyone out there dealt with this? Am I missing something?

Here is what I'm thinking of doing. I'm thinking about bending a very small portion of the outer edge of one of the plates, in a few strategic places, to cause it to bind as the water pump bolts are drawn down, eliminating the rattle. Or, maybe someone has used a thin rope seal glued around the edges of the plates to both seal them for optimum water flow and secure them in place?

What do you think?

Oh, Thanks in advance to a great bunch.
 

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Welcome to why the 66-68 water pump/timing cover sucks so bad. I've had one on my '67 400 for years, tried everything and nothing makes it work as well as the 69-79 11-bolt design. The two divider plates just rattle around in there, held in by the water pump casting. I tried clearancing, different water pumps, the stainless Ames parts, modifying the divider plates, etc. All you can really do is get the plate to impeller clearance as close as possible without the plates contacting the rotating impeller.

The '69-70 LeMans system is what I am going to use on my next pontiac. It has the single divider plate and tubes that work much better. Water flow especially at low speeds is much better with the 11-bolt system. There is a reason PMD changed it.

Using the 11 bolt timing cover also allows use of the later 4-bolt balancer. You can retain the '66-70 aluminum alternator bracket. Reusing the bracket lets you retain the PS pump and alternator where it is now. You do have to find a set of matching balancer and W/P pulleys for '69-70. They can be found from some pontiac specific suppliers.
 

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Mine works fine.It is a 65 cover/ 8 bolt pump assembly.


If you follow what I said in my posts in this thread to a T , you will be golden.


Take a good look at the plate with the large hole for the impeller surround.


It needs to be centered from front to rear (laterally) to split the flow from the impeller. The plate needs to be centered because the flow from the impeller is split between the front and back of That plate and consequently that splits the flow to the left and right side of the engine.


It is imperative that this one detail be observed or you will never get it to work well.


Like I said mine works perfect even in 90 degree temps (like last week)
 

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thank God for Chipheads post! here i am with a 70 engine wondering wtf i didn't remember having TWO plates!! whew!
 

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The front accys on these engines are such a dumpster fire. Pontiac made significant changes to the balancer, or the cover, or the water pump, or the brackets, or the accy placement, every year from at least '66 to 72, not including all the pulley changes. They even added a bolt hole in the head for the alternator in '71, so changing heads can affect how the freaking alternator fits. There was a special short 11-bolt water pump for '69 Firebirds. The '68-cover is one-year-only because it has the later 4-bolt balancer but the 8-bolt pump. It takes work and research to piece together a poncho FEAD system that keeps the engine cool, balanced and doesn't chuck belts.

Whenever I look at a pontiac at a car show, the brackets, pulleys, water pump, and balancer are never 100% right. I saw a beautiful 70 GTO the other day, and the pulleys were so out of alignment I couldn't believe the belts stayed on. Anyway, rant off.
 
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