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Discussion Starter #1
hello, Im working on my 1969 firebird convertible. Im getting ready to do the body work next week and i have to order supply's. Im going to be putting on this filler up to 3/4's of an inch thick ( i know its not the right thing to do) But im up in the air on what i should use. Some people are telling me dura-glass sticks better shrinks less, and some people tell me All metal sticks and shrinks the least. Im not sure which to go for. Any help would be greatly apreaciated. I heard dura-glass is alot easy to work with, but my big objective is long-jevity
 

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Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
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Lets back up here a little, why do you think you must put the filler on this thick? I am thinking we could walk you thru getting that metal a little better.

If you do decide on the monster fill job, go with the Duraglass, Evercoats "Everglass" or "Kitty hair". These are some super high filling products that are much easier to sand than the metal filled stuff.

Brian
 

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My vote would be the fiberglass filler. I've seen it used and abused (hey I worked on used car bones for awhile) and haven't seen cases of it falling out or cracking. I've also used all metal products at a yacht builder, and I find it more of a pain to work with then fiberglass, and have read some horror stories about it here and there. But I am with the other guys, why not replace that panel, or at least work it out some more. It is a fiberbird convertable, not a geo metro or something. Unless you are looking to unload the problem on someone else and let the next bodyman shake his head when its reworked correctly. If you are going to spend the money for a decent paint and primers, I don't see why you would want to put it over that much filler. I'll admit, I've done it before at shops who were more concerned about getting a bunch of stuff in and out, and on real beaters, but don't know why you would want to do it if this is a project car you want to build and keep and plan to use anything but the cheapest of paint on. Prep and metal work is 90% of the quality of the job, you really want to spend time and do the best job you can in this area.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks for the input so far. I Probaably exadurated with amount of filler needed. The work ive done on the car was; put on in-er and out-er wheele houses, the full trunk pan from floor boards back, rear seat support, NOS tail panel, 2 qaurter skins, 2 floor boars, inner rear valeince, and new dash. The problem i had is that it turns out that on one side when i welded on the qaurter skinn the upper panel was bowed in a little bit, and i still welded on the skin. This is the area where i need the thicker filler, maybe a 1/2 inch. I work in a auto-body shop where we do real high end restorations and regular collision work. At the shop half the guys say All metal and Half say Dura-glass
 

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Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
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I know you are exaggerating with the 1/2", it just can't be THAT much. Maybe a quarter inch?

Brian
 

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Glad to hear you probably exaggerated a bit. I'd hate to see you loading that car with filler, but now that hear more of the story, sounds like you are doing it right, replacing all those panels. Anyway you can access behind the upper panel (are you talking sail panel?) and bump it out or make any progress with a stud welder?
 

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fill it up?

to fill or not to fill that is your decision-from my experiences the allmetal will stick to bare metal and break away from itself leaving a thin coating on the bare metal where duraglass will stick to itself and not adhere to the bare metal . i did these tests using 2 strips of ground metal put both products on an eighth of an inch thick and bent them in half. i then placed them on a plate in some water the water got under the duraglass but even tho the allmetal was broken away the metal was not rusty but still "alum"color.so i found the allmetal has superior adhesion compared to duraglass. we use allmetal lots on welds and it sticks and flows into the pinholes whereas duraglass bridges overtop.
 
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First.... How is the metal prepped right now? Is it in epoxy(preferred) to protect it from corrosion? If it has epoxy on it, then good. If not, I would do that right away.

I would work the metal out as good as posible, with your experience level, and use the Duraglass. With all the work you have done to this point, you don't want to cut corners now. Can you post some photos of what you have? Someone here can help you figure out your best plan of attack from that point.

Aaron
 

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Did an old Ford a while back, car had been done in laquer at least 20 years ago minimum. I chemical stripped the car down to bare metal, when I got to the quarters could not beleive had all metal filler in some spots that were 1/2 inch thick. Looking at the quarters, no shrinkage, blistering, bubbleing or cracking before stripping this made a beleiver out of me that this thick of an application held up that long with no evidence of filler at all. If you must use that thick of an application the all metal is the way to go from what I have seen first hand.
 

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Use Everglass or Glass Lite IMO. 1/2" is a heavy fill and beyond what filler manufacturer's recomend. Try bumping that area out to within 1/8" and if it is a flat spotted shrunk area this might require some stretching. You can get that metal much closer than where it is now I'm sure. If the stretch goes to far you'll need to shrink it back down and this is best done with a shrinking disc. Post some pictures of the problem area and I'm sure you'll get some detailed instructions from the crew here. Use two coats of a quality epoxy primer over your metal and allow it to cure up overnight before applying any fillers-this will aid in adhesion and also help with the different expansion rates between the filler and metal. And yes expansion and contraction can create some problems where there's a heavy fill. Avoid the long and strong, kitty and tiger hair long strand fiberglass fillers especially if epoxy primer isn't going to be used under them.

Rodnik's test results differ from what I've seen using the silver colored fillers, no all metal for me-I've seen to many failures.
 

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Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
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Rodnik said:
to fill or not to fill that is your decision-from my experiences the allmetal will stick to bare metal and break away from itself leaving a thin coating on the bare metal where duraglass will stick to itself and not adhere to the bare metal . i did these tests using 2 strips of ground metal put both products on an eighth of an inch thick and bent them in half. i then placed them on a plate in some water the water got under the duraglass but even tho the allmetal was broken away the metal was not rusty but still "alum"color.so i found the allmetal has superior adhesion compared to duraglass. we use allmetal lots on welds and it sticks and flows into the pinholes whereas duraglass bridges overtop.
Interesting test. I have never done such a test on these products so I don't know, but your findings are interesting. I have to bet that if you epoxy it first the results will be different. THEN, maybe the duraglass (or Everglass) would be a better choice? hmmmmmm

Mr4speed, like I have said many times, if filler is used anywhere near correct it will out last the car, AND you and I.

Brian
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Thanks guys for the input so far, from your posts im leaning toward all-metal but not positive yet. As far as metal prep, Its going to be freshly sand blasted then run over with a big DA, the day before doing the plastic work. But i really think its prob a matter of personal choice
 

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I would never use all-metal, thats what the rip-off body shops use to try and make a fast job. Or so my auto-body teacher says. Dura-glass all the way, I myself use Marglass. And if you put enough pressure into it, you can get it to go anywhere. (pinholes etc) Prep the metal w/ a 24 grit grinder. Just dont grind so much to where you actually shrink the metal. Then once you get the dura-glass shaped, you can spread regular body putty.
 

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do the water test and you will make up your own mind--- also the allmetal shrinks and contracts at a closer rate to metal then the glass product for less shrinkage. I don't think a ripoff shop would use a product that actually costs more than lesser expensive duraglass but who knows.
 
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It is really up to you what you do. If you plan on applying it that thick, the expansion rate should not really apply. Since it would be that thick, the metal is going to respond to temperature changes alot faster than anything you apply. They can call it "All Metal", but in fact, it isn't! If it was metal, the only way you could spread it is if it was "molten".

You have very good advise from Bob, Kenseth, and MartinSr. They have been doing this stuff a long time. I think Bob started when the Model T was still running the road, and really knows his stuff. :D

If the area is going to be freshly blasted I would shoot some epoxy on it before applying filler. I would not sand it with a DA before that, as it is an ideal surface for adheasion.

Aaron
 
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I just looked at the photos. Man that is a big project. I sure hope that everything fits together right when you are done, doing it that way. I would not have cut off both quarters at the same time, specially with the rear of the car hanging that way, and no apparent bracing to keep stuff where it is supposed to be.

Aaron
 
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