[crash]

I have 65 Elky, engine is 70 350, Alt has built in regulator, so my wiring diagrams are not helping. Also the guy before me has made all kinds of weird splices everywhere in the vehicle.
When I put the battery on the charger it shows 12.52 Vlt when finished, start her up and I get 12.25 at the battery. If I check the Bat stud on the Alt. I get 17.5 Vlts.
If I run a wire from the Alt stud to the Pos. battery terminal, I get 14.3 at the battery.
Can I just run the wire from the Alt to the battery or will it overcharge and burn out the battery?
Also when I run the lead from the Alt to the battery there is a clicking noise in the horn relay when I first make the connection.
Any thoughts are appreciated, Bob

 

[docvette]

Doc here, imp:

According to my schematics, your El Camino came with an alternator, and EXTERNAL regulator..It sounds like the guy before you hacked the wire harness up trying to make an INTERNAL Regulator work..Causing all your problems..

The first step is to remove and replace the old wires and splices..(any one of which) could be bad..

It also sounds like the FUSE LINK is open between the Alternator and the Battery cable on the Starter Solenoid terminal, or the horn relay..Or the wire never connected..as evidenced by the running voltage jumping from 12 volts to 14.4 when you run an external wire in place of the stock..

The Horn relay is a tie point for the original alternator power and Fuse link to the battery..Does your horn actually work?

If not, and if the horns blow when you add power to the relay, you have a stuck horn button,

Check to see if the horn wires were pulled from the horns..Somebody then probably thought in error , to remove the wrong 12 volt wire from the RELAY..and instead, disabled the alternator, OR shorted it playing around and blew out the fuse link.(in which case, you have 2 or 3 problems to fix)

The standard wiring for that alternator Should be, Terminal #1 The big red wire to the Fuse link then to the battery terminal at either the horn relay OR the starter solenoid.

Terminal #2 Should be a brown wire, the field to the charge lamp.

Terminal #3 Should be Red to switched 12 volts (ignition)

If you still have the original regulator harness..this is the conversion to a 3 wire alternator..

But I'd replace the hacked wire first..AND make your Alternator Output wire the Big Red #1 terminal, a 10 ga wire. run directly to the starter solenoid terminal Via a proper Fuse link to the battery cable there. A much better arrangement.

Doc imp:

 

[crash]

Alt problems

Doc, this guy chopped everything up under the hood. There is a horn hooked up to a button on the dash, there is nothing left in the steering column, horn wise that is. I have a feeling there is no easy way out of this mess ! Thanks for your help.

 

[docvette]

Doc here, imp:

Does the horn actually blow?

To get a harness kit and install it in the column is no big deal..and not all that expensive..you should be able to do it in a couple of hours..

Comes with a turnsignal switch, and horn hook up (just a ground) ..that runs through the column. You will need to get the little parts like the Horn Button contact and ring if yours are missing or no good though..still only a few bucks at the parts house..

I don't know what the rest looks like , but you should be able to repair the rest if it isn't too far damaged..My last post shows the way the Alternator needs to be hooked up, it you have the stock harness and want to convert it ..or the other if you want to wire it straight away..that will get it chagrining again,, :thumbup:

If it's really that bad , you might consider a harness kit for the whole car..from Ron Francis or EZ2WIRE..and start fresh again.

Either way, we are here to help you..myself and Bryan59EC ..he's up to speed on older El Camino's also.

Just holler!

Doc imp:

 

[crash]

Alternator to battery

Doc, thanks for all your help. As to the horn , as I told you its on an independent wire and button. There are no horn parts in the column, but everything else works fine, turn signals etc.
I should do it right, since money and obtaining aftermarket parts is not a problem, but due to illness the most I get to work on the car is an hour a day, so I will probably take the easiest way out. Thanks Again, Bob

 

[crash]

Alt to battery

Doc, sorry to bother you again but I was wondering about your last post. Could I go from big term #1 with the nut on it, 10 G with a fuseable link to the junction block near the battery, Term #2 to a voltmeter, and I'm not clear on where Term #3 to switched ign. goes? Would the Alt charge the battery with this setup?
Hope this makes sense. Thanks, Bob

 

[docvette]

Doc here, imp:

Terminal 1 will get the 10 Gauge wire to the fuse link and battery.

Terminal 2 will get or go to the Brown wire in your car, that is the Charge lamp..You should not run a voltmeter here (although you could..)

Terminal 3 will go to any switched source from the Ignition switch. (There is probably a red wire there now.)

To run your volt meter it is best to hook that to any switched Fused wire inside the car you are able to use..and a properly bonded ground. A Volt meter will read power anywhere in the system.

Doc imp:

 

[BuddyK]

Try this web site. This is an excellent source for GM wiring issues and info. I've even called and spoke with Mark on the phone. He's always willing to help and loves old cars. :thumbup:

http://www.madelectrical.com

 

[knighthawk]

Doc, when you say the number three wire to '' any switched source from the ignition switch " , shouldn't it be off the accessory side and not the ignition side ? Cause woudn't the charging line keep your ignition hot and unable to shut off the motor ?

 

[docvette]

Doc here, imp:

Nope,

Because when you turn off the key, you kill battery voltage to the Excite of the Alternator, (The alternator output wire is on the Battery side of the Ignition), and the switch isolates the two..

If you put it on Accessory, It will NEVER Charge.

Doc imp:

 

[knighthawk]

yeah, but.............I gotta think on this for a while.......... I ain't to quick sometimes when it comes to takin' it off paper.....

 

[docvette]

Doc here, imp:

Here is the STANDARD GM diagram for the system...

In that system, they don't even Switch the second red.. (I advocate you do..) they just run it to the horn relay for remote sense..

But if you wire it this way, you won't go wrong..

Doc imp:

 

[crash]

Alt to Battery

Doc, thanks for further diagram, and instructions. I don't find an external reg anywhere, and my horn relay(which doesn't seem to be hooked up) has the 2 terminals you show and also a 2 prong slip on with 2 wires on one and 1 wire on the other.There is also a red always hot wire lying loose in the dash, could belong to anything. Thanks again I'll try to figure this all out tomorrow.

 

[docvette]

Doc here, imp:

If you want to make it easy on yourself, just hook the big red up to the fuse link and starter terminal at the big bolt..

AT The ALTERNATOR, jumper the small red over to the BIG RED TERMINAL, and attach it there...

Then attach the Brown wire over to the charge lamp..

That's it your done.

Doc imp:

 

[knighthawk]

still confused :in post number two, you said ''red '' ( field )should be switched,in the second diagram , post # 11, it is switching the brown or charge light. So are we talking two different alternators here ? I still say, you cannot hook the field to ignition, cause once the field is hot you can not kill the ignition. I'm referring to a GM internal grnd reg., Also, by connecting the small red ( field ) to bat, terminal, it will charge, but will have a drain on the battery, small drain , but after sitting a couple weeks the battery maybe dead. Just my opinion.

 

[docvette]

Doc here, imp:

The RED is NOT the field.....

The Brown IS....

The Small red turns ON The DIODE (one way Valve) regulator...The Brown is The Field to the Charge lamp, the Big Red is Alternator output.....

The BROWN goes to the Charge lamp, IT HAS 14. 4 Volts to it to the charge lamp...The OTHER SIDE of the charge lamp has 12.2 volts on it...It is a "pressure detecting" or "SERIES" Device....The side that is most negative, determines the state of the charge lamp..

The Ignition Controls the state of the Field through the charge lamp, (why you get a lamp when you turn the engine off) BATTERY power AND Alternator OUTPUT are on the HOT AT ALL TIMES side of the switch..The Field and Charge lamp are on the switched side of the ignition..when you turn the ignition OFF the two circuits are isolated from each other..(if you hooked it up correctly..) The Alternator goes off..

THE REGULATOR is a Diode regulator..Hooked up Hot at all times, If you have a drain, you have a BAD regulator...and your alternator needs rebuild or replacement..I advocate hooking the SMALL RED to switched POWER BECAUSE, you get better remote sensing, AND if the regulator is starting to reverse bias, your battery WON"T go dead over night..But the traditional way is hot at all times.

GM and Rodders have been doing this for years and is a proved system..The last diagram is FROM the GM manual..

If your having problems understanding the system , Perhaps you might consult your local Auto Electric Shop.

Doc imp:

 

[knighthawk]

I guess I got my wires crossed.

 

[crash]

Alt to battery

Crash here, Thanks Doc, got it.

 

[docvette]

Crash here, Thanks Doc, got it.

Doc here, imp:

:thumbup: :thumbup: Keep us updated!

Doc imp:

 

[crash]

Alt to battery

Due to bad weather haven't got to work on it yet, but the small red on the Alt is already jumpered to the large red alt terminal. Hopefully no rain tomorrow and I can trace the rest and get this charging.
As I understand it,
Your first step: big red is the terminal with the nut on the alternator, and it goes to big bolt on starter, which is where the positive battery cable goes?
Then brown goes to charge lamp, which is the dash idiot light?

By the way none of the idiot lights go on when you turn key on, and the fuel needle pegs to full.

Thanks again for all your time. Crash