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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
What do you guys think of using anti-seize compound on engine parts? (external) Around the mines where I have worked for the last many years anti-seize was just generally accepted as a must use for heavy equipment and I have never seen it cause a problem with fasteners coming loose so I have always used it for most any exposed nut or bolt except for something that required a thread locker compound. The reason I am asking is that about 2 years ago I replaced a water pump on an older Ford 302 and the bolts were a bear to remove (as is usually the case on these older Ford engines) with one breaking so to prevent future problems I cleaned the hole threads with a tap, used all new grade 8 bolts, high temp anti-seize and then torqued to spec. The problem is now two years later the car came back with a mysterious water leak that the owner could not find, turns out the bolts holding the water pump/timing cover had loosened and was leaking at the timing cover/block junction. Since usually these bolts are a problem to loosen and I have never even heard of them working loose I think it is obviously the anti-seize, but why? I have done several water pumps in this manner along with numerous other parts but now I am having second thoughts on the wisdom of doing this, any opinions?
 

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Russ,

I didn't know that. Can you elaborate a little more on the types. I've always thought it was a one-size-fits-all type substance.
 

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Thanks. The stuff I had before was silver colored, which I assume is the nickel. The current stuff is copper colored...which I guess is self-explanatory.
 

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I use a bunch of anti seize on exhaust manifolds, brackets, suspension bolts, anything that I don't want to seize up.
Like Russlaferrera says, I use a lockwasher or nylock nut.

I always thought the silver stuff was filled with aluminum dust.

On those 302 and 351 W waterpump bolts I like using Permatex 2 B, non hardening sealer. ( I think that is the right number)

It's thick gooey brown stuff, thick enough to seal the threads into the water jacket and gummy enough to be loosened when you need to dissassemble.
Why Ford didn't make those blind holes is beyond me.

I have been using that stuff since I was a kid, and never had a leak or broke a bolt in any of my stuff. I use it on intake manifold bolts as well, to keep oil from coming up through the bolt holes.
Those aluminum sealing washers are hard to find.

Later, mikey
 

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Here's a link to Permatex/Devcon for a little more detail on the anti-seize.

Permatex High Temperature Thread Sealant for almost everything including power steering and (?!!!) brake fittings.

Just one comment (Well OK, two) on using grade 8 bolts in blind holes ...
1.) Grade 8 bolts are more brittle than grade 5 (or so I was told)
2.) They're a son-of-a-gun to drill out when they snap off.
 

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The only problem I've seen with anti-seize compound (and thread locker, for that matter) is that people tend to use way too much. A very thin coat will do. I've been using the same can of Permatex for about 20 years now and it's just beginning to get low.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thanks guys that makes me feel better, maybe I have been doing it right after all :) The bolts I used were flange head and so I did'nt use lock washers also the anti-seize was the Copper high temp variety since it was all I had on hand at the time but I don't think that should be a problem, maybe? :confused:. Anyway I think now maybe the flange head bolts are suspect so while I still have the car here I will replace them with regular grade 8 and use lock washers.
 

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I have been doing like all of you and am still confused when I want a bolt to not seize AND I want a bolt not to back out. But I also hear that when you use the bolt locking adhesives lock tite they will also form around the threads and prevent rust and galling and to some extent antiseize. What is the correct thing to do.
 

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Felpro makes a copper colloidal anti-seize.

The copper particles burnish into the metals and prevent dissimilar corrosion and copper makes it easy to break loose.

This is all I have come to use on everything automotive. Especially spark plugs and lug bolts. Every thread gets this unless it needs teflon sealer, lock-tite, or torque oil.

As Mauss said, I am just now on the second 1 pound can in 30 years. All you need is a drop or two.
 

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OldRed, I don't think the antiseize is your problem. I think your problem is with the Grade 8 bolts. When you tighten a bolt it stretches a certain amount and thats what keeps it tight. A Grade 8 bolt would would half to be tightened to much for the application. Go to a Grade 5. Also the corrosion caused by electrolysis seems to occur more in the aluminum bolt hole in addition to the threads so some antiseize on the shank of the bolt would also help. Just my two cents. Hope this helps. :thumbup:
Steve
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Steve, That's something I had not thought of before :confused: but it makes all kinds of sense. I just always use grade 8 for about anything auto related but you are right if one were to torque a grade 8 to max torque on that aluminum :pain: , gives me something else to think about.
 

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oldred said:
What do you guys think of using anti-seize compound on engine parts? (external) Around the mines where I have worked for the last many years anti-seize was just generally accepted as a must use for heavy equipment and I have never seen it cause a problem with fasteners coming loose so I have always used it for most any exposed nut or bolt except for something that required a thread locker compound. The reason I am asking is that about 2 years ago I replaced a water pump on an older Ford 302 and the bolts were a bear to remove (as is usually the case on these older Ford engines) with one breaking so to prevent future problems I cleaned the hole threads with a tap, used all new grade 8 bolts, high temp anti-seize and then torqued to spec. The problem is now two years later the car came back with a mysterious water leak that the owner could not find, turns out the bolts holding the water pump/timing cover had loosened and was leaking at the timing cover/block junction. Since usually these bolts are a problem to loosen and I have never even heard of them working loose I think it is obviously the anti-seize, but why? I have done several water pumps in this manner along with numerous other parts but now I am having second thoughts on the wisdom of doing this, any opinions?

1) Cleaning the holes with a tap usually enlarges the thread, as evidenced by metal particles in the tap. A thread chaser is the proper tool.

2) Gaskets often shrink. Some brands/quality more than others. I have seen those Ford timing cover bolts installed with blue loctite and the pump still leaked due to gasket shrinkage.

3) Using anti-seize also reduces the bolt rotational torque, so unless using an actual torque wrench they might not have been as tight as they should have been.

4) Grade 8 bolts often have rolled threads, not cut threads, which are slightly different.

5) Tightening a higher grade bolt to the same torque as a lower grade bolt does not stretch the bolt as much, but in installations you describe, the softer bolt is not stretching any amount anyway, the gasket and aluminum are compressing.

6) Torque-to-yield bolts came into vogue 2 decades ago for engine head retention as the uniform elasticity of the bolt compensates for the parts expansion and gasket shrink in these critical situations while maintaining a constant torque.

My conclusion from working on lots of old Fords is that....... If it were me, I would probably use a premium gasket and blue loctite on the timing cover/waterpump bolts. Blue can be resnugged if necessary.
 
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