Hot Rod Forum banner

1 - 20 of 30 Posts

·
The Dude
Joined
·
156 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
While the pro touring moment has been big for the past 10 years and it seems like the largest thing in hot rodding I have personally never really liked it.
Maybe it's just because as a kid in the late 90's I watched a lot of NHRA drag racing and feel in love with the 4th Gen F-bodys that to me a muscle car or hot rod was built to drag race. When I think of American muscle cars I think of large blown V8 cars with large drag tires on the rear that's cackling at a stop light, drooling for it to turn green.

Fast forward to the mid to late 2000s. Around this time I started really getting into cars. I was in high school and pro touring seemed to be what dominated the car shows and the hot rodding world. It seemed like every classic muscle car I saw was equipped with at least 17 inch or 18 inch rims and low profile tires. Several cars did more by swapping in IRS', modern interiors, suspension kits to improve handling, etc. It seems the motorsport focus of the hot rodding world became improving cars for Autocross and road racing instead of drag racing (I have nothing against either motorsport just not my thing).

I'm not trying to offend anyone with this statement but it seems to me one of the large reasons for pro touring is popularity is because the Muscle Car crowd wants to prove their cars can handle and perform like the European sports car crowd or the import scene. We have all heard it countless from BMW and Honda owners "Your Camaro or mustang can't turn" or "So what you won a drag race, if there was a turn my honda would own you..."

It seems like the Muscle car crowd is trying to prove it's something it's not with pro touring. It almost seems like pro touring is trying to imitate European sports cars! I found it ironic that so many muscle car owners want to improve handling while so many supra/Subaru owners are trying to drag race!

It's like the muscle car crowd are feminists trying to prove they can do anything a guy can by claiming they can do anything a Euro can!

Only a few months ago I bought an 86 Camaro IROC Z and I get guys coming up to me at parking lots and car shows asking me If I swapped a Corvette IRS yet. I tell then the car is going to be a street and strip car and they look at me like I'm insane!

It also seems like their is almost a stigma against drag racing these days in the muscle car world. If you build 500 hp Chevelle throw on drag radials and race at the strip at least once a month some how your car is not practical or "dated." But a blown Chevelle with 17inch wheels and low profile tires that spends it's life in the garage and is trailered to a car show once a month is some how a "do it all" muscle car?

It seems like only during drag week I hear a huge buzz through the hot rodding world about drag race the rest of the year is all about Autocross.

Am I really the only one who isn't a big fan of pro touring? What do you guys think?

Am I wrong about the reason for pro touring's grow? Maybe the real reason is the older gearheads got tired of drag racing since the 60's and wanted something new but why not use an 80's or 90's BMW instead of spending 10's of thousands of dollars to rebuild your Chevelle or Nova as a road racer?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
548 Posts
To be honest, I find a "pro touring" car a lot more practical than a "drag" car. I love that company's are finally designing suspension systems for old 60's cars that make them more enjoyable to drive.

Don't get me wrong, I love drag cars but I don't need my 64 Impala to handle any worse driving it on the street than the boat it was from the factory. I think this is where the pro street idea has taken off so well.

The idea of cruising with big slicks on the back and skinnies on the front doesn't sound all that fun to me. There is no reason you can't throw on some drag slicks on a pro touring car and take it down the 1/8 or 1/4 mile.
 

·
The Dude
Joined
·
156 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
To be honest, I find a "pro touring" car a lot more practical than a "drag" car. I love that company's are finally designing suspension systems for old 60's cars that make them more enjoyable to drive.

Don't get me wrong, I love drag cars but I don't need my 64 Impala to handle any worse driving it on the street than the boat it was from the factory. I think this is where the pro street idea has taken off so well.

The idea of cruising with big slicks on the back and skinnies on the front doesn't sound all that fun to me. There is no reason you can't throw on some drag slicks on a pro touring car and take it down the 1/8 or 1/4 mile.
If you are driving a Pro Touring car that's fine but it seems like 90% of pro touring cars that I see are all trailer queens. Most sit in the garage, get thrown on a trailer and taken to a car show once every month. I've seen a few that are actually driven but they are rare. Usually the few that are driven are autocross cars though with IRS conversions.
 

·
www.generationhighoutput. com
Joined
·
897 Posts
Personally I would never build a Period-correct, Pro-Touring or Pro-Street car. I do love looking at them though, and admire the craftsmanship and attention to detail that goes into them.

On my personal vehicles I enjoy reasonably sized tires and wheels, mostly stock interiors, mostly stock wheels and subtle visual modifications. I don't care if it's fast, slow, big, small, truck, car or van as long as it's interesting and different in non-visually-offensive way. Probably why I enjoy the Scottsdale Pavilions just as much as SEMA or Barrett-Jackson. I do really like concept ideas though.

Cars like Randy's C-cab and Brian's Motorama truck really get my blood flowing. Ramzoom's Rambler #2 is another. Coming up with a cool idea and following it to the smallest detail. That takes skill and dedication. I love it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
548 Posts
If you are driving a Pro Touring car that's fine but it seems like 90% of pro touring cars that I see are all trailer queens. Most sit in the garage, get thrown on a trailer and taken to a car show once every month. I've seen a few that are actually driven but they are rare. Usually the few that are driven are autocross cars though with IRS conversions.
In other words, you saying there are a lower percentage of drag cars that are trailer queens.
 

·
The Dude
Joined
·
156 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Huh? :confused: So getting trailered to the track and only doing 1/4 miles doesn't make them a trailer queen?
No because they are actually racing and being used. Compare a man with a blown 8.5 second tubbed Camaro that gets trailed to the drag strip raced in NMCA and NHRA events every month to a guy with a Camaro with 18 inch rims, chrome accessories that only trailers his car to a car show but never actually drives it. His car never gets used, it's only for show.
I'm not saying all Pro Touring cars are trailer queens but it seems like majority are.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
548 Posts
No because they are actually racing and being used. Compare a man with a blown 8.5 second tubbed Camaro that gets trailed to the drag strip raced in NMCA and NHRA events every month to a guy with a Camaro with 18 inch rims, chrome accessories that only trailers his car to a car show but never actually drives it. His car never gets used.
I'm not saying all Pro Touring cars are trailer queens but it seems like majority are.
So you have no facts to back up your statements? :rolleyes:

Why don't you try searching Big Red Camaro. This car has been around for ages and pretty much started the pro touring craze. I'd like you to tell RJ that his car is a trailer queen.

I'm sure there are way more cars out there that get driven than ever make it to shows.

Here I did it for you.


 

·
The Dude
Joined
·
156 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
So you have no facts to back up your statements? :rolleyes:

Why don't you try searching Big Red Camaro. This car has been around for ages and pretty much started the pro touring craze. I'd like you to tell RJ that his car is a trailer queen.

I'm sure there are way more cars out there that get driven than ever make it to shows.

Here I did it for you.

Big Red Camaro: Driving Fast & Taking Chances [Official Trailer] - YouTube

I already mentioned in the OP that there are Pro Touring cars that do Autocross and Road Race.

But serious do you honestly believe that majority of cars at shows are driven often? It's common sense. There is no possible way a car with no wear on the tires, no dirt on the wheel, no dead bugs on the front bumper or the windshield is driven often. Here in Florida that is 100% impossible. Even just taken my Camaro down the street my front bumper is covered in dead love bugs!

As I mentioned not all pro touring cars are trailer queens or garage queens but a good portion are.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
548 Posts
If you don't like pro touring cars that's fine. Seems like if they are at a show or not you aren't going to like them. To each their own as in most things.

Would you dig a "drag car" that was only built for shows and never got raced? I'm sure there are plenty of them just like any other "show car". I figure you probably would so why get so uptight about seeing pro touring "show cars" that never get used?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
11,051 Posts
I say build what you like and want....

Some people want a drivers...
Some people want a show cars..
Some people want a mini truck..

So what if someone want's to build a show car that only get's trailered.. If it's what he want's,,So be it !!!!

It's a person's choice..(EVERYONE HAS ONE).. If you don't like getting beat by a trailer queen,,, BUILD ONE !!!!!

Thanks God we have a choice in what we want...;)
 

·
The Dude
Joined
·
156 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
If you don't like pro touring cars that's fine. Seems like if they are at a show or not you aren't going to like them. To each their own as in most things.

Would you dig a "drag car" that was only built for shows and never got raced? I'm sure there are plenty of them just like any other "show car". I figure you probably would so why get so uptight about seeing pro touring "show cars" that never get used?
It can't be a drag car and not get raced then it's just a car.
I don't mean to sound uptight about pro touring, sorry if I do.
I'm just tried of Pro Touring being the "big thing" or the main thing that people only want to talk about in hot rodding. While there are guys like Big Red, Chip Foose and yourself who sincerely love their Pro Touring cars. It feels like the pro touring trend is kind of forced like it doesn't feel natural with all of the magazine shoving down your throat.

I know David Freiburger is one guy who openly admits he doesn't like Pro Touring. He started a thread on one of the forums (I think Chevelles) about not liking Pro Touring and the forum was split 50/50 with people agreeing/ disagreeing. I remember one of his posts he mentioned not liking the direction hot rodding is going and thinking big wheels are ugly. That pissed some people off.

But now thinking about in the 50's, 60's and 70's the magazines kind of forced drag racing down every ones throats with their huge coverage of Super Stock and Funny Cars...
I also remember Freiburger apologizing in the same thread for favoring Street and Strip cars in Hot rod/Car Craft during his time as editor. (Before rejoining).

I don't hate Pro Touring just not a big fan and I really love drag racing. I liked the whole Idea of building practical street and strip cars like Freiburgers Super Bee in the 90's. (remember practical for a drag car not daily driver)

If anyone can find or the David Freiburger Pro Touring thread let me know. It was circa 2009 when I read it, his user name is his name and I believe it was on the Chevelle Forum.
 

·
Semper Gumby
Joined
·
384 Posts
Rider - you are making the case for why my cars always wind up with "less than nice" paint & body work - if I had a 100% perfect. show-winning ride, I'd be scared silly to drive it! It would be a trailer queen! My drivers have a habit of collecting scars & scrapes - almost always while parked somewhere (although I did get sideswiped at a traffic light once!) Its why I posted a while back that I am gonna get one done by a real pro with skills that I do not - nor ever will - possess but that I am super scared of having it get messed up - likely within the first week!

When I buy a new car - example - wife's Lexus LS. Yup - it lasted 3 days before some doofus bunted a shopping cart into the side of it at the mall.

But if I can't drive it, if it is just a 'look at", then I'd rather invest the $$$ in a valuable painting on my living room wall.

So trailer queens - yup - no love for them from me! I'd rather have a driver!

My last drag car was a trailer queen - it had no street manners at all! Couldn't idle, couldn't pull away from a light unless I got on it - and boy do cops love THAT!

So I can see a good pro touring - something that has good all-round performance, and that I can drive. Something that will run hard in a straight line AND around corners. Something that I can use to pull my travel trailer with and go to the weekend long shows, with good enough suspension that my travel trailer won't push it off the road at the first corner, with enough brakes to be able to keep the pucker factor under control.

I did the muscle cars in the late 60's with a '67 SS396, a 67 "stang 390 GT and a 70 Z28, also drove a buddy's '69 Bee for him at the strip (he was banned for alcohol infractions) and a 440 Dart. All were scary on winding roads and had brakes that sometimes even worked a little bit.

I'd love to have my 67 Chevelle back but only if it can actually be driven!

I welcome the availability of pro-touring suspensions as well as go-fast engines - add to the enjoyment. And NO- it would NOT be a trailer queen!
 

·
The Dude
Joined
·
156 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
Thinking about it part of my problem of pro touring is probably knowing about it too late. I didn't really know what it was till circa 2007. It's kind of like Street Rodding in the 70's they were rods built to cruise and have fun like the real life California kid. The magazines start picking up on them, the scene grows and by the late 80's Street Rods are dominated by 5 figure chromed out Boyd Coddington (I'm not a Coodington hater but many of his customers never drove his cars) cars that are primely trailer queens giving the true street rodders a bad name.

Pro Touring started in the late 90's with guys wanting to Autocross their muscle cars, fast forward to the late 2000s high dollar trailer queen cars again dominate. Giving the true pro touring guys who drive their cars a bad name.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
744 Posts
Not really a fan myself. However I do like the idea of making a old car handle like a slot racer. I would go with a more conservative approach at least from aesthetics. Something like 60 series tires and 15-16" rims.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
548 Posts
It can't be a drag car and not get raced then it's just a car.
I don't mean to sound uptight about pro touring, sorry if I do.
I'm just tried of Pro Touring being the "big thing" or the main thing that people only want to talk about in hot rodding. While there are guys like Big Red, Chip Foose and yourself who sincerely love their Pro Touring cars. It feels like the pro touring trend is kind of forced like it doesn't feel natural with all of the magazine shoving down your throat.
A show car can't be a "drag car" yet a show car can be a "pro touring" car? Ok. That makes total sense now! :drunk: You're not sounding uptight. You just aren't making any sense.

You should buy some old early to mid sixties Car Craft and Hot Rod magazines. About the only thing in them was about drag racing. That's what was big at the time. I'm sure there are a lot of guys getting sick of all the mags writing about build ups of the new LS engines. They are the new craze.

I guess if you don't want to get upset by seeing something at a car show that you don't like, don't go. It would probably be best not to buy any magazines either if something you see might offend you by thinking they are "shoving it down your throat".

Why get so worked up about it?
 

·
EFI Rules and Carbs Drool
Joined
·
919 Posts
I guess my license plate should read "confused" or something like that. Is it a show car? Autocross/pro touring car? Driver?

Dunno, but that's why I don’t like labels or "boxes" to put people and ideas in. Build what you like and drive it like you stole it!

On display at Detroit Autorama:




At an auto cross:



"Drag" style old school 6-71 blower on a modern EFI engine:



And not afraid to drive it anywhere anytime:




Yea, I haven't drag raced it yet, but it's on my list.
 
1 - 20 of 30 Posts
Top