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If your simply looking at the tire smoking aspect, I can light up the tires with my stock 3100 V6...... I don't think an engine's worth is measured in tire squealing capabilities. Just something to think about.
 

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dear mr. cuda,please forgive my simplistic approach,as i did'nt mean to imply that such abilities are a good indicator of an engines merit!by the way, how big a tire/s and for how long/far?[no brakes now!] see ya !,jimm

[ April 20, 2002: Message edited by: jimm ]</p>
 

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PCHotrod, equating a 454 to a 427 is like equating a 454 to a 366. They are all BBC based engines. However I dont recall GMC using a 454 in anything bigger than a 1ton truck.(just an observation)(by the way last no.s I saw theres a 6cyld under 6L producing more power than the ford diesel)

everyone else, big blocks are definately torky motors, but that is where the benefit ends on the street. the small block offers so much more on the street. The biggest is economy. But its your money and my opinion.
 

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From my experiences with big block and small block engines you will always have to incorporate more radical parts into a small block to achieve the same output of a mildly modified big block.

As the saying goes, "No replacement for displacement".

A good example would be to compare a big block and a small block engine with nearly the same horsepower and torque.

I did some calculations based on engine size, horsepower and cost of the engine by dividing the cost of the crate engine by the horsepower output. The results are interesting. This calculation gives you a cost per horsepower.

Chevy 502ci Ram Jet, 502hp/567ft-lb of tq cost $7095 = $14.13 per hp

Chevy ZZ 502ci base kit, 502hp/567ft-lb of tq cost $5850 = $11.65 per hp


Chevy 383 stroker, 325hp/415ft-lb of tq cost $3975 = 11.31 per hp

Chevy Ram Jet 350ci, 350hp/400ft-lb of tq cost $4525 = $12.93 per hp

Chevy 502ci, 338hp/512ft-lb of tq cost $5295 = $15.67 per hp

Chevy 350ci HO, 330hp/380ft-lb of tq cost $2495 = $7.56 per hp

The last crate motor listed as the Chevy 350ci HO is the best bang for the buck.

Keep is mind that some of these engines are not as complete as some of the others.

This is the links to the websites where these engines are sold.

The ZZ 502 is also an awesome deal!

http://www.greenwoodchevy.com/engine1.htm

Another thing you must realize is that in comparison horsepower is cheap and strength is expensive.

Allot of companies sell 400 plus horsepower small block engines that are assembled with lesser parts making them more prone to failure if stressed.

Sure, your engine has 400 hp but how long will it last?

Big block engines are built with strength in mind and are able to withstand abuse more so than a small block.

Thus to get reliable high horsepower out of a small block you have to sink a pretty fair amount of money into it and will most probably come up short on the horsepower and torque department.

A 500 hp small block will be less street-able than a 500 hp big block since the level of modifications to the small block will be much greater in order to build the horsepower to that level.

In essence, the small block will be a more radical setup directed more at the strip than at the street.

In an effort to wrap this up, if you want big reliable horsepower there is only one way to go.

[ May 03, 2002: Message edited by: PC Hotrod ]</p>
 

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bigjoe,hey! i'm with pchotrod on this subject.a very streetable 500 hp big block with mild manners is easier to come by than a 500 horse small block[speaking naturally aspirated] i've read the mags,seen hp to dollar comparos and when i've built my own its come the way i've told you!there is no substitute for cubic inches at this level!granted ,there will be a difference in fuel consumption[at least in my experience]but that is life ,tradeoffs are part of everything we do.my advice is to go with what you feel most convinced [that is to say most confident ] in and then learn!you are probably going to do this again and each time can be a growth process.best of fortune!holler if you need to,see ya!jimm
 

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That 325hp seems low for a 383, it is real easy to get 400+ hp with a 383 without getting too radical. My 383 is getting real close to 500hp but I will admit it is pretty radical but alot of fun.
Thanks
Drifter
 

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jimm, I was in the parking lot of my church and my wife's cousin was saying it can't be done. Well, I'm never one to turn down a dare, so I dropped it in the lowest gear I could and mashed the pedal. Well, there were people all around and I didn't feel like getting a lecture from the wife, so I had to let up. I left a mark about 2 1/2 feet long though.
 

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mean man,i mean cuda man, no! i mean imeancuda man!i'm still giggling,sounds like your church is a good place, if they dont excommunicate ya or just kick youse out they must be ok!cudaman you get high marks for the humor,but the 2.5 ft. strip [think you could have made 20?]dont get it. tell you something funny,or sort of anyway.my son and i built engines [i forget, should that be motors?,oh well, i'll just ask chuck]his a 454 .30 over, mine a 350 .40 over. to make a long story a little shorter, i'll cut to the chase. that big block kicks my sb's derriere[*** ].we spent about the same dollars[i know, i was paying for both!]and had pretty much the same things done.we are also running the same gear ratios on almost identical rides.one major difference, he's running 36 tires and i'm running 35 inch tires[his measure 36 inches on the truck, mine measure 34 inches on the truck] i know that we all have preferences and generally folks are hard to convince to try something different.and for sure ,my experience is not all encompassing!!thats why i suggested that bigjoe jump in and get his feet wet and grow from there.i've yet to build one that even before it was installed i did'nt have things in mind that i would change on the next one.thanks for the laughs,you the man!see ya,jimm oh yeah,his 454plus will turn over those 36 tall 14.50 wides for about60 ft!hubba!

[ May 04, 2002: Message edited by: jimm ]</p>
 

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jimm, I didn't even have 20 feet to fully work with! My in-laws were sitting in their car about 20-25 feet ahead of mine. I'll try to see how far I can really get that mark up to! The squeal was fairly loud. Loud enough for everyone outside to turn and see the smile on my face! :D To tell you the honest truth, I think it was one of the first times I ever even tried to squeal the tires on the 'ole girl. Maybe a build-up of my 3100 is in order? ;)
 

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cuda,the man!no,no,no,tempting as it don't put the dinero in the family ride.best to put it in that meancuda.i think thats what you want to do anyway! and besides,all that family ride business was for fun! isaac,you have an honorable name,and i already know you attend a place to worship.god bless you and yours!!my place is your place!see ya! jimm
 

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jimm, a build up of the 3100 would probably be fun, but not very cost effective. Parts are relatively hard to come by and quite pricey. Plus, the performance level will never come close to meeting that of the 440 I have planned! I wish the General would make some cheaper parts for the N-Body platform. That way, the entire family could get where we needed in not much time!
 

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Here's a set up a friend has.
-355 with 370 heads unported, 3 angle valve job
-comp cams 292 cam hydralic
-1.5 intake and 1.6 exhaust roller tip rockers
-RPM intake
-flat top pistons
-decked block
-reworked 750 Holley double pumper-flows a little over 800 cfm
Ram Air Systems setup
-4.56 gears
-M/T streets
-spool (I know, I know)
2800 rpm stall
th350 with shift kit
1970 caprice lighten to 3600 lb
runs 12.2 with 1.78 60 foot
Its a little rank for daily driving but it can be done.
 

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cuda man,hey guy! 440 ,oh yeah~! as tim allen the tool guy says, uugghhh!uugghhh!,or sometinng like that.it's a shame that parts for well, i guess any thing other than chevy costs so much more!but there is still good reason to press on,they are way cool rides!i love cudas,challengers,chargers,superbees,gtx's,roadrunners,gasp!and we need more people out there building them!post some pics when the time is right,i mean even build pics if you can, alas ,i don't have a scanner yet[ i can buy a new billet distributor with that dough!]by the way ,one of the coolest guys in our club just had multiple bypass [5] surgery[paco] and is on the mend.thought you might like to know if you did'nt already.you know it would be great if we had a slush fund set up that members could contribute to for use in sending some stuff to members that are down with illness!not cards , but good stuff, like rod magazines that are different from the ones that person already gets ,catalogs, [car parts of course!] and most assuredly some edible goodies. just a thought,and not a bad one.let me know if i can help in setting this up,see ya, jimm
 

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there are several things everyone seems to be forgetin here. first is not all block castings are equal (BBCorSBC). 454 blocks have inherent weakness that slightly smaller cubed BBCs dont (cyld wall thickness, web thickness, deck thickness) all these areas vary among the different engine groups (especially with chevy)(a 283 is not the same as a 350 and a 454 is not the same as a 402). also not all bank accts are equal. PC has been talkin crate motors but I dont reall Bigjoedo askin bout crate anythin. also my personal experiences are that a good 350 block with a set of flattop pistons at 9.5-10:1 comp with good breathin heads the right cam for the intended use matched with a good intake and carb will produce every bit as much torque and HP as most crate BBCs for less $$ and live a long and prosperous life,even under stressfull periods.
 

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jimm, that's a good idea! I'll bring it up to in the Staff Room at the club board.
When the 440 build is under way, expect to see a ton of pictures! I plan on documenting the entire process from start to finish. This will also be done with the car once I finally decide on a body to go with. Why oh why did the Chrysler Corp. have to have some many beautiful cars!?!?!?!?
I ordered my scanner when I got the computer and I just recently invested in a digital camera. They're both pretty handy! :D
 

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Well critter, if you were to read all of the postings (like the first one), BIGJOEDO did ask about a 454. And since Chevy does make a 454 crate motor I thought I would mention it.

Even though he didn't ask about crate motors I gave my opinion. This is a place that I can voice my opinion and not get a sharp comment right?

Well, it appears that this discussion turned into a comparison of BBC and SBC engines.

Whether its crate motors or junk yard build up engines I would say that all of the posting that follow the original posting certainly gave the originator of this topic a great deal to think about.

Keep up the good discussions.
 

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PC, I must certainly agree with you. There has been a great deal of discussion in the comparison of BBC vs SBC and I'm in hopes that everyone has learned something other than we all have as many opinions as likes and dislikes. We dont always have to agree on any one topic,just respect each others thoughts.
 

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Ok, after reading all the yea and nea's of big block this and small block that. I must say that there is no replacement for displacement. Althought I have had both small blocks and big blocks, both are great because the are made by Chevy. For those of us that love Chevys we ought to be on our knees thanking the lord above that we do have chevy's to work on, race and argue about which is better. I have to say that the small blocks are a mighty engine and that a stock 350 will beat a Ford small block anyday! My .40 over 350 in my street driven 79' pickup over the last 5 years has managed to ruin a transmission and a rearend and replace the rear tires many times. I give it a 10+!!! I also managed to stuff a stock 396 in a 79' Nova with a turbo 400 and 411 gears w/slicks and headers, would turn high 12's low 13's. The first time down the track I was highly impressed!!! I also give the big blocks a A++++!!!! So I would give scrafice the extra weight for a big block for the price that I can't pay to get the same hp and fun that I can out of a big block. So, BIG BLOCKS RULE!!!!! :eek:
 

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Originally posted by bigjoedo:
<strong>I have a 3900# Chevy Monte Carlo (1976). It has a 300HP 350CID engine. I want the car to be a quick street Rod, (NOT Pro-Street). Is the small block adequate for this application ? Would I be better off putting a 454CID in the car. Either way, I plan to run 4:11 gears in the rear, and use a single carb.( no Blower or NO2) Thanks for your help.</strong><hr></blockquote>
 

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I have to agree about the big block torque. I drive school bus and train drivers. We have some buses that are retired now that ran gas 366 BBC engines. They will cruise at 65mph plus even with a governer on them. Who knows what they would do without the governer. One that still is used as a spare bus is an absolute animal. It has throttle body injection and an auto trans and it will cruise with the big diesils except on really big hills. I looked at this thread because I,m thinking about putting one of those 366 BBC's in my 81 Regal. We're talking a super low buck project here trying to keep it under $1000.00. The warmed up V6 just doesn't have enough power.
 
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