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if your looking for a relatively cheap engine that makes good power build a strong small block with around 350hp. when i say strong i mean a forged rotating assembly. you already have the engine. your rotating assembly is where you will find your strengths and weaknesses of your engine. and add a bad *** nos kit. that way you can drive around reliably on the street and still kick *** on the weekends.
 

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This thread started in 2002 and rebirthed many times since.
Since you just rebirthed it again in 2008, I think I can call this thread a record of how many times it`s been reborn.
I`ll say this for all first time posters, Look at the date before you post.
 

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DoubleVision said:
This thread started in 2002 and rebirthed many times since.
Since you just rebirthed it again in 2008, I think I can call this thread a record of how many times it`s been reborn.
I`ll say this for all first time posters, Look at the date before you post.
Postings are like wine for me, after years you see if they are really worth the time that has been spent.

Many things has been considered and said but I still miss a lot.

As:

Fuel consumption is higher with the BBC - Not in any case

I read about extremities like biiiiig cams, 4 to 5000rpm stall speed converters and 4,10 to 4:56 gearings.

A really high horsepower SBC with a such a high stall speed and a 4+:1 gearing will anyting else but economical.

I doubt that such a car could even compare in the stop-and-go-traffic with my not too wild 540BBC with Dart 320 alu heads and roller cam. :evil:

I got a 4L80E, 3,08:1 gearing and the lowest stall speed ever and the car really will not suck me poor at all.
 

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hannes_slanec said:
Postings are like wine for me, after years you see if they are really worth the time that has been spent.
I have zero issues w/resurrecting old posts, as long as the new response adds something to the original postings. When doing a search, there's less hits to sift through.

AFA BBC vs. SBC, I used to think the breakoff point was around 450 HP. More, go BBC. Less, a SBC will do it cheaper.

Now days (especially w/the Gen III's) you could easily add 50 HP to that.
 

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Boy we sure opened up a can of worms here didnt we :D Big block vs small block, carb vs efi, turbo vs supercharger, really comes down to your preference. I dont like small blocks, they dont seem to have the longevity or the performance I look for. Granted i put my engines to work and not racing. Pulling trailers, hauling loads, etc. I had TBI 350 that ran 210k miles but was due for a rebuild long before that (I had to install spark plug non-foulers on a couple plugs to keep it from fouling out a plug every few days and causing a misfire). That 350 pulled around a 4x4 suburban on 31s with 3.42 gears. That was the best 350 Ive ever been around and it really didnt impress me that much. You couldnt give me a 350 for my truck today. (you could, but i'd clean it up, paint it and sell it). I took the 350 out of my 79 C10 and am in the process of installing a 73 454.
 

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Torque454 said:
I took the 350 out of my 79 C10 and am in the process of installing a 73 454.
Everybody is talking about stroker-kits for SBC but no one considers stroking the big boys.

496 :) , 522 :mwink: , 540 :D , 572 :evil: ...-Kits have all the same price.

The cheaper ones may not be the best of the best and therefor the right choice for racing applications, but at least they all includes forged rotating assebmlies (dont forget the hype around 327´s or 427´s only because of there forged crankshafts), H-Beam rods and better than stock pistons.

So you can build a huge, brute engine for less which can handle much more than every day-business. Very, very streetable in any way.... :thumbup:


As for the old time postings, why should we save them if we dont use them anymore.
Better to revitalize an old threat instead of starting 10 new ones, maybe its just me :welcome:
 

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hannes_slanec said:
Everybody is talking about stroker-kits for SBC but no one considers stroking the big boys.

496 :) , 522 :mwink: , 540 :D , 572 :evil: ...-Kits have all the same price.
The way I see it, a 496 is damn near a no-brainer when it comes to rebuilding a 454.

Even if the crank wasn't trashed, for not a whole lot more you can have that extra displacement. And if the crank IS toast- or even 30/30-, I wouldn't even think twice. I'd build it as a 496.

men drink beer
Make mine a Busch. ;)
 

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I am with you, even a low budget kit as shown below for as less as
US $1,249.99
will get the job done.

This might or might not be the right material for a race engine but will replace
for sure that old worn out, lame 1976 Caprice 454/225HP rotating asseblmy.

You got a totally new rebuild engine that make 5-600HP with ease and one that can withstand that power since you got a fully forged rotating assembly.

Why to spend 7000-8000 up for a wild SBC which will not take less gas because of the wild cam???



(Description)

ALL FORGED 454 / 502 / 540 BIG BLOCK CHEVY ENGINE KIT / STROKER KIT!!



Need to freshen up your BBC... this is the kit!!! This auction is for all brand new parts- HawksRacing Forged Steel Crank, 4340 forged H-beam rods with ARP Bolts, Premium Forged Pistons/Rings/King 'H' Race bearings. This kit is brand new no .010/.010 offset ground crap, like some kits you find... this is new STD/STD.
This kit uses stock main journals (see cart), and stock BBC rod journals and will slip right into your Big Block (some strokers will require clearance).

CRANK

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CNC Machine for "Competition" Quality and tolerance
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Quality Forged Steel construction
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All Journals micro polished to 5rms finish
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Rounded Crank Throws for superior windage
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Generous throw radii for superior strength
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Magnafluxed, x-rayed, Sonic Tested Nitride, Shot-Peened and Stress-Relieved
*

Balanced to exceed OEM specs (kits require balance, we can do it)
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Large chamfered oiling holes for better lubrication
*

Legendary quality for lasting durability and performance



RODS

BRAND NEW SET (8 rods) (see chart for lengths) 4340 FORGED steel, CNC Machined H-BEAM connecting rods for your BB Chevy engine. These rods are Certified 4340 Steel, vacuum degassed to remove impurities, designed for light weight without sacrificing strength. Each rod is Magnafluxed, x-rayed, and sonic tested to ensure the best quality. They are CNC machined, shot-peened and stress-relieved and set weight matched to +/- 2 grams. They have 8740 ARP Cap Screws and are bushed for full-floating pistons with A18 bronze bushings (see chart). The ends are stock BB Chevy size, so you don't have to worry about them fitting properly or having to buy "special" parts to make them work.



Kits Include:

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HawksRacing Forged Crank 2/pc rear seal (see chart for stroke)
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Premium Forged pin fit Pistons, Pins, Race proven locks (see chart for application details and C/R)
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4340 Forged H-Beam Bushed Rods (see chart for lengths)
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Premium King 'H' Series Race rod/main bearings
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Premium Quality Ring Set
*
 

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I'm kinda with Cobalt, 450hp is about the cutoff. YOu can get 450hp out of a small block if you do your own work and start with a decent core for less than a grand, after that it starts to make more sense to go with a 454, over 550hp a 496 makes more sense, it all comes back to power per cubic inch. You can build 2hp/ci but it gets much more expensive than building 1.25hp/ci.

Of course if you allow running turbo's or superchargers it muddies the waters.

BTW I'll have a Guinness.
 

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Well, one thing's for sure- 500 HP is the "new" 400 HP engine. The 'standard' HP of our street engines has escalated- along w/the displacement. 350 = 383, 454= 496, 302W= 347, 460= 514, etc.

I hate to say this- but it's mainly due to cheap off shore parts that've flooded the scene. But right along w/those cheap parts are all the high quality US-born and bred cylinder heads that are the actual fuel for this fire, IMHO.

But even if it weren't for the cheap Chinese parts, I'd like to think that we'd be heading in that direction anyway. To 'keep up' w/the current crop of LS-x engines that are getting more and more plentiful and less expensive, this has to be, IMHO.

A cammed up 6L LS engine w/the L92 heads- w/no other major mods- will make a streetable (as in granny can drive it) 500 HP all day long, w/o so much as breaking a sweat.

But I'm not about to count the Gen I's out quite yet. I believe they will hold on for a lot longer than the flatty did when the SBC (and the other "high compression" OHV engines) came out, some 50-odd years ago.

The writing is on the wall, it's just a matter of time until the Gen I engines are depleted from the 'yards and such, but the design was just so right, that it will take a long time to erase them from the streets of America- unless the Green Police gets them...
 

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I ouldn't say the design was right at all. The only thing chevy 350's have going for them is HUGE production numbers. As LS engines go down in price the sbc will die hard and fast IMO. There is nothing a gen 1 can do that a gen 3/4 can't do better. The only reason the gen 1 is holding on is because of cost, but that will change in the next 5 years.
 

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Welp, we have a nice snow day here and so had some time on my hands to poke around in this old thread. Nearly 8 years old! Wow. A lot of these older threads are great because they address some of the more basic questions of hotrodding like "big vs small block" "Ford vs Chevy" "Holley vs Edelbrock" etc.

Anyway its an interesting read. Not sure if its full of great information, but at least entertaining!

Back on page 2, and probably 7 years ago, somebody posted this:

A good example would be to compare a big block and a small block engine with nearly the same horsepower and torque.

I did some calculations based on engine size, horsepower and cost of the engine by dividing the cost of the crate engine by the horsepower output. The results are interesting. This calculation gives you a cost per horsepower.

Chevy 502ci Ram Jet, 502hp/567ft-lb of tq cost $7095 = $14.13 per hp

Chevy ZZ 502ci base kit, 502hp/567ft-lb of tq cost $5850 = $11.65 per hp


Chevy 383 stroker, 325hp/415ft-lb of tq cost $3975 = 11.31 per hp

Chevy Ram Jet 350ci, 350hp/400ft-lb of tq cost $4525 = $12.93 per hp

Chevy 502ci, 338hp/512ft-lb of tq cost $5295 = $15.67 per hp

Chevy 350ci HO, 330hp/380ft-lb of tq cost $2495 = $7.56 per hp

The last crate motor listed as the Chevy 350ci HO is the best bang for the buck.
These are particularly bad data. This model only really works if cost per H.P. on any platform is linear, and its clearly not. Of course the lowest horsepower/torque motors have the highest ratio of horspower per dollar. By that end, you could rebuild a 90's 350 with all stock components for 1200 dollars and end up with 250 horse. What's that, 5 dollars per horse? Show me a 500-600 horse 350, then we'll look at comparable dollars per horse. :rolleyes:

As you go upwards in torque and horsepower numbers, you need vastly more rigid parts, better engineered heads, forced induction or the like. With relatively stock, off-the-shelf components, obviously you can get into the 5 and 600 range with a big block more reliably and probably more cheaply than with a small block.

Although its not the target of this thread, it also overlooks the fact that there are a mountain of reasons to choose to build a smallblock or a bigblock rather than just dollars per horse.

Just a thought...

K
 

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I totally agree that $/HP is a poor comparison or yard stick.

It make more sense to use that type thing when comparing modifications or bolt-ons that are for increasing the power on an engine that's already together.

The car rags are great at doing a $150 mod (CC just did this very thing) to gain less than 1 HP.

They swapped carb bodies to make a 650 a 750, to gain something like .6 (as in 6/10) HP! It could have just as easily LOST .6 HP depending on the dyno, if they'd have made another pull...

Not a very good return on the money spent. But to hear them tell it, all was just dandy- ProForm being an advertiser and all. :evil:
 

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cobalt327 said:
I totally agree that $/HP is a poor comparison or yard stick.

It make more sense to use that type thing when comparing modifications or bolt-ons that are for increasing the power on an engine that's already together.

The car rags are great at doing a $150 mod (CC just did this very thing) to gain less than 1 HP.

They swapped carb bodies to make a 650 a 750, to gain something like .6 (as in 6/10) HP! It could have just as easily LOST .6 HP depending on the dyno, if they'd have made another pull...

Not a very good return on the money spent. But to hear them tell it, all was just dandy- ProForm being an advertiser and all. :evil:
They wouldhave gained more power by putting that $150 towrds chrome goodies, a GM dress up kit is worth at least 30hp on some of those mag's dynos. :mwink:
 

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bugging me....

after reading the entire post.... i just had to make a post.

a few replies said that the added weight of a bbc wouldn't be worth it in a 3600lb car, and that a 383 could do better... :nono:

(just making up numbers, don't hit me)

489 bbc - 600hp, 550lb/ft (aluminum heads - 600lbs)
383sbc - 500hp, 400lb/ft (aluminum heads - 500lbs)

at the cost of 100 lbs, you are getting 20% more hp,, and 37.5% more tq


3600 + 500 = 4100lbs
3600 + 600 = 4200 lbs
weight difference = 2.4%!!!

so your saying that an added 2.4% in weight is not worth the extra 20% in hp??

do some math and figure that in mid to heavy car applications, a bbc is the OBVIOUS choice for getting it moving. just because the power to weight ratio of the motor alone is way off, doesn't mean anything for the whole combo.

My vote goes to BBC. that is why i am putting a bbc in my 3000lb car.

(but... if you are on a $2000 budget, then i guess you have no choice, or you REALLY care about gas mileage, than a bbc will be a bad choice. if you really want to go fast, BBC all the way!)
 
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