[packratwrecker]

Who's the authority on the old B-W R10's, that were used by nearly everyone(at some point), from the 30's, to the 60's?
I'm using one, as an auxiliary, behind a TH400, and having some seal issues.

I'd like to chat at someone that's familiar with the guts of these things.

I haven't been on for a while, but I'll be checking back, to see if there is anyone around with thoughts.

 

[M&M CUSTOM]

Back to the top, hopefuly this get a response.

 

[packratwrecker]

Thanks for the boost boss, but I think, that with all the late model O/D stuff out there, these are obsolete. Guess, I'm just old fashioned, or hard-headed.

btw, Think I got my seal issue fixed. Combination of defective bearing, and too much oil. Now I just need to get the breather tube to quit spitting at me.

P.S. If this thing works out, as far as durability, and simplicity, I may be in the market to buy old o/d trannys, to build conversion units.

 

[redlightning]

Pack,Do you mean the overdrives that went on the back of a standard three speed?

 

[M&M CUSTOM]

Do you have any pictures of it, I'm curious.

And the main problem I see with the new ones. $$$$

 

[packratwrecker]

Sorry M&M, but forgot to get pics, before dark. Maybe I'll crawl under it tomorrow. $$$ was my motivation on this from the beginning. I'm not about to give what they are asking for a gear vendors unit. That's more than I gave for the truck I mounted mine under.

Yes, Red, the Borg-Warner R10 overdrive, that was used by nearly every major manufacturer, at some point, between the 30's and 70's. I have no idea how many variations there were, but had to be dozens, given the different tranny's they were fitted to. I think the Chevy units, used behind SM318's & Saginaws, would be best, given the built in slip yoke seal, on the back end. The Saginaw units are pretty rare, '66-'69 only, and really expensive. I've seen a few SM318 units, which would be cheaper, given the lackluster performance potential of the main transmission. I've even read a few articles, that told how to refit one onto a Saginaw 4-speed.

This one was partially modified, before I got it. The main shaft had been cut, and turned, and the shift collar, welded to a slip yoke. I put sealed bearings in, and made a front cover, with mounts. The governor, and speedo adapter were gone, so, I blocked those holes, with freeze plugs.

I'm going to reroute my breather tube, next, and use larger tubing, to see if I can get it to quit spitting oil.

 

[redlightning]

Pack,The only thing I know about them is what my father told me.I have a 54 f-100.My father had a 54 ford car overdrive that he gave me that I was and still might put in my 54.When he gave it to me I told him I would just probably keep it in overdrive all the time because of the 3.92 in the truck rear end.He told me, no you want.He said the carrier that holds the planetary gears were weak and where known to break.
Like you said they put these in everything.It sounds like maybe yours is built up some.This is all I know which isn,t much.I want to know more too.Does someone out there agree or disagree with my fathers opinion?
Some of you flathead guys ,Help us out!!!!!!! And Pack I would like to see some pictures of what you are doing too.Thanks,Carl

 

[packratwrecker]

Red, keeping it in overdrive will work, until you try and back up. The 1-way roller clutch, behind the planetary, will bind up, until it blows up. I can't imagine how these things could be too fragile. The guts are as big, or bigger, than the stuff found in a modern auto trans.

The guy at Bumper to Bumper in Beloit has one behind a pickup 4-speed, in an early 60's Ford. He says the only real concern is not to let the lube oil get low, or it will eat the carrier gears.

 

[packratwrecker]

Sorry guys. No pics today. Took the camera down to the shop, after lunch and snapped a few. When I got home, the computer wouldn't recognise the disk, and the camera battery was almost dead.

I'm gonna try a new disk, and a freshly charged battery, tomorrow, after work.

 

[packratwrecker]

Not clean, or spiffy, but works well.

Finally got all the demons out, and got some pics under the ramp truck a lil bit ago.

The burnt grease on the exhaust, and undercarriage, is from the faulty front seal, and being overfull. That has stopped, since replacing the seal, and filling to the proper level. When I get the vent rerouted, I think the spitting will be finished, also.

It's also a little filthy, because my last test run was out to a friends farm, about 10 miles out in the country.

 

[packratwrecker]

A few more pics...

009 is the overdrive lockout cable, which I put behind the seat. The cable was too shor to reach the dash, and this way, it isn't getting kicked around under the dash. It's in easy reach, right at the end of the seat.

012 is the Eaton axle switch, temporarily mounted to the column. I think I like it there, but the mounting needs some work. Not too ugly, for a 10 minute job.
If I decide to eliminate the lockout cable, and use a solenoid, I can wire it to the direct side of the switch, so it will work like a regular 2-speed axle. Overdrive, or direct lock, and bypass the overrunning clutch, in direct.

 

[redlightning]

Pack,It looks good!Yours is different than the 54 car trans I have.

 

[packratwrecker]

This one was made into an auxilairy, by cutting the transmission's main shaft, and having a slip yoke welded to the low/reverse shift collar. A roll pin, and a set screw keep it together.
The tailshaft housing varies depending on who was using the unit, but the guts are probably the same. Most of the Chevy's I've seen are similar to a modern transmission, with the slip yoke and seal on the rear end. I think this one is a Nash, Kaiser, or Rambler unit, but not sure.
Mine is lacking the governor, and speedo adapter, that yours probably has.

I have a 65 Chevy pickup unit at the shop, now, that on a SM318 3 speed.

 

[Old School Nut]

interesting setup you have their... I to collect these old gems, I have one saginaw with the overdrive, (its going to be 4 speed, I already had the case machined) and I have 2 of the older units but I can only make one good one of the 2 (1955 chevy with the 4 bolts) I have 2 of the trannys apart right now on my workbench.

I also have some info that I have collected over the years... maybe we can swap some?

-Leo-

 

[packratwrecker]

Leo,
I never considered that this might be a Chevy unit, for an old torque tube setup. That would explain the flange and collar on the back end, and the strange output shaft spline. It's 1 3/16"(or 1 3/8", have to measure again) x 10 spline. I got the output yoke from a Jeep & 4x4 shop, down in Salina.

The rear shaft is from a 64 Chevy pickup. I only had to cut a little of the spline stubs, to get the lengths right. It's basically reversed position, with the carrrier bearing cut off. I can't remember where I got the front shaft, but I think it's a 4x4 front shaft, given the small diameter tube.

That is the problem with being a packrat. I can dig up almost anything, but most of the time I can't remember where I got it, or what it fit.

 

[Old School Nut]

hummm well I never seen one for a old torque tube setup, altho It seams to me I seen an article somewhere on converting these to work with torque tube axles...

Leo

 

[packratwrecker]

Ya, There's a guy at the Wichita swap meet every year, that converts the model A torque tubes, with them.
I thought about trying to put a governor back on, and rewire, for semi automatic use, but I figured 1 or 2 good "under load" downshifts would be the end of it. Besides, the gear ratio seems to be fairly close the The TH400, so it isn't really like a splitter, more like an additional gear. 1st-over, is slightly lower than 2nd, and 2nd-over is slightly lower than 3rd, but you lose most of the difference, when shifting.
I think a 20% unit would be great for a splitter and overdrive.

 

[Old School Nut]

yeah.... hey, have you ever converted a saginaw 3 speed OD to a 4 speed OD?

 

[packratwrecker]

Never actually seen one, but have seen articles. Looks like a fairly straight forward deal, if you have decent mechanical skills.

As I recall, you use the 3-speed mainshaft, in the 4-speed case. The only real machine work, is drilling the 4-speed case, for the reverse lockout pin. And shortening the driveshaft, of course.

I'd think it would be just the thing, for a roadster, or bucket. With the 30% overdrive, and a wide ratio(3.50 1st), you could put in a 4.11 rear gear, and still
bop right down the interstate. Plus have an awesome off line capability.

In the ramp truck, with 245-75R16 tires, it cut from [email protected], to [email protected]
I'll tell you in a few months, if it will hold up to a 402/TH400, in a 1-ton ramp truck.

 

[packratwrecker]

Saturday's the day.....

Have to pickup up a Ferd F150, and haul it over the the junkyard, in the next town over. We'll see how the O/D holds up under a load. After that, we have to run into town and grab a couple more, and go back to the junkyard.

Might get a real workout, if I end up double loading it. It came with a lift bar attachment for the back, which I converted to a mini-sling.

Maybe I oughta tie the old driveshaft up in the frame, in case something comes apart. :sweat:

The way it is now, all I need to swap it out, is 3 wrenches, 7/16", 5/8", and 11/16", and the whole thing drops out.