Hot Rod Forum banner
1 - 20 of 45 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I thought it would be great idea to replace my water pump while having my radiator out of the vehicle. Turns out, it was a very, very bad idea. I broke two of the four bolts holding on the water pump. They are VERY rusty and old. I thought, no problem I will easy out them and if need be re-tap the hole. Wrong again, the easy out has snapped off in the hole!?!? and that is some damn hard steel. A cobalt drill bit will not even make a nick in it.

So, here I am... what next! Does anyone have any ideas to removing the easy out. I have tried everything from heating it with a benzyne torch, tapping it with a chisel to try and turn it in the hole to release the torque and no luck. The easy out is not sticking out of the hole, it is recessed inside the hole approx 1/8".

Any ideas appreciated....

Thanks
7DCRZR
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I can flat tow the vehicle if need be, cant this be performed while the engine is in the vehicle? I have an air powered grinder, I just need to find out where to buy some excellent carbide tips to bore out that easy out. Tried Home Depot and Lowes, and ACE hardware and no luck.
 

·
Hammer and a torch
Joined
·
1,254 Posts
Not highly recommended but I used an air hammer with pin point punch to just break up an easy out before but not on a block... :(

If you can get access to a reg oxy/acetl torch and use a rather small tip just heat it (the easy out piece) nice an red hot (careful not heat the surrounding block as little as possible) then use a spray bottle to cool it rapidly... This works quite well for frozen plugs in blocks and it may loosen it enough to use something to remove it with...?
 

·
Bowtie or Die!
Joined
·
636 Posts
What engine are you working on? Like Bumpstick said you can "bust" it out. I have done it. But its risky.The easy out will bust because its very hard therefore its brittle. If its a SBC chevy you can drive it threw the hole, it will go into the water jacket if your lucky. But you run the risk of cracking the block. I wont sugar coat it but your in a real pickle on this one. I wouldn't want to deal with it.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,097 Posts
If the small tip torch thing doesn't work try this.I have used carbide bits and a dremel tool to get broken taps out of blind holes but not an easy out. Dremel does make real carbide bits for their tools, but you have to look for them. A welding supply house should have 1/4"shank bits for your die grinder. They are called carbide burrs. You grind the stuck item in half inside of the hole, then pull the pieces out. You could try welding a bolt onto the broken stub. The bolt will give you something to grab and the heat will help loosen the easy out in the hole. If the stub is below the surface then put a ball or 2 of weld on the broken end,(mig welders do well at this), Then weld the bolt on. Anyone proficient with a welder can do this. Don't let your next door neighbor who just got a new toy try to do it or you can look forward to some more work. Once you get the easy out out you still need to get the broken bolt out. Left hand drill bits work wonders.If you mess up the hole getting that easy out out, (out out?) And the bolt out, you can repair the threads with a helicoil . Have fun, mikey
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
The engine is a smallblock chevy. My neighbor sells Mac Tools and said mechanics that run into this problem use diamond carbide tipped grinding tips with a high speed air grinder. He said if you can get it honed through the middle of the easy out, they usually will let go fairly easy. I did try and pound the side of the easy out to get it out but no luck, and I did not want to damage the block or crack anything to cause more damage. The diamond carbide tips are going to be my next move, I am soaking the heck out of the bolts with liquid wrench, maybe they will soak up some of this stuff and help it break free.

Once it is out, would you guys recommend a helicoil or just re-tap the hole with the same size bolt, and if it does not work go with the next size up. I can always drill out my water pump to accomodate a larger bolt. I have never used a helicoil, are they strong enough for a water pump application?

Thanks for all the feedback. Typical project for me, 20 minute job turns into hours and hours of labor :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Hi, I used to work in a welding shop & as someone else suggested you can try to weld a nut over the broken bolt & then undo it. But then you mentioned the word 'rusty' and rust & welding don't mix so that idea might be out. I'm trying to visulize what you've got going on there. Is the water pump off of the car {did the bolts brake off inside the block & the pump come off?}. If the water pump is still on the engine can you grind the water pump off with a cut off wheel to give you more room? What kind of motor is it? Someone else mentioned a dremel with a wheel that would grind the easy out in half? Is there any way you can grind a slot in it & use a screw driver to take it out? Is there any way you can use a hole saw to drill through the bolt between the engine block & the easy out? {drill inside of the block & outside of the easy out?}. If the bolt is rusty this might work well. The bolt is made of steel & your block is cast so if someone is REALLY good with a gas welding torch they can sort of melt/cut the bolt out. The cast iron won't melt like the steel will {please note the word 'REALLY'}. This can work well with dis-similar metals cuz your working with different melting points. Good luck. Bill
 

·
Just one of the guys
Joined
·
3,080 Posts
Once it is out, would you guys recommend a helicoil or just re-tap the hole with the same size bolt
If you get the EZ-Out removed and the bolt is still in there, try step drilling the bolt out. By this I mean go up one size on the drill bit but stay under the actual size needed for the bolt. Do this a couple times until you are at the correct tap drill size. This should leave you with just the threads of the bolt in the threads of the block. Then tap it out using the correct size tap. This will work if your initial hole into the broken bolt was in the center. If you happen to damage the threads, then drill and tap it out for a Heli-Coil. A Heli-Coil is more than adequate to hold the water pump on. Good luck,

Kevin
 

·
That 6 Cylinder Guy
Joined
·
273 Posts
Broken bolts are a common occurrence when working on old trucks and heavy equipment,I never use easy outs,I position a nut that is one size larger than the bolt,over the broken end,and using a stainless steel 3/16 or smaller rod,weld thru the hole in the nut to the broken bolt end until the nut is full of weld,then turn out using the nut that is now welded to the broken bolt.

We have special rods just made for this called extraction rods,but stainless works well too.

But welding to the broken easy out may be a different story,might be worth a try tho.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,097 Posts
That is a neat way, how does it work if the bolt is broken off below the surface?


jim.. said:
Broken bolts are a common occurrence when working on old trucks and heavy equipment,I never use easy outs,I position a nut that is one size larger than the bolt,over the broken end,and using a stainless steel 3/16 or smaller rod,weld thru the hole in the nut to the broken bolt end until the nut is full of weld,then turn out using the nut that is now welded to the broken bolt.

We have special rods just made for this called extraction rods,but stainless works well too.

But welding to the broken easy out may be a different story,might be worth a try tho.
 

·
That 6 Cylinder Guy
Joined
·
273 Posts
It works very well,I've used extraction rod on bolts broken up to three inches deep,it is designed so the flux always pushes away from the weld in any
position,but stainless is good if it's not too deep.

If you went to any good welding shop they would probably give you one or two rods,and if you have some welding skills,it's not really too hard.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,097 Posts
jim.. said:
It works very well,I've used extraction rod on bolts broken up to three inches deep,it is designed so the flux always pushes away from the weld in any
position,but stainless is good if it's not too deep.

If you went to any good welding shop they would probably give you one or two rods,and if you have some welding skills,it's not really too hard.
Thanks for the tip, Jim. :thumbup: I learn something new every day. I did a little searching and found that it is called stud removal rod also. harris welco has one called super missle weld and there is a company called MG (messer) that makes one called mg 600 thats only purpose is to remove broken bolts. That one seems to be the one most often referred to on the old tractor sites. I will call my welding supply and see if I can't get some. I have a stinger lead for my tig. ( I have 1 or 2 welding skills) :) Maybe 7dcrzr should call the mobile tractor repair guy.
 

·
That 6 Cylinder Guy
Joined
·
273 Posts
Try it,you'll like it. :D

The biggest thing to remember is to always keep your arc dead center on the bolt and all the way out as you build it up,that way the weld never sticks to the surrounding metal.

Also splashing cold water on the nut as soon a welding is finihed helps shrink the hot bolt and assists in freeing up the seized threads.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
35 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Unbelievable....

What about something to remove a thread tap? I had just successfully removed the bolts/broken easy out (with carbide tipped grinding tip) and was cleaning up the threads with a thread tap, applied a very minimal amount of pressure and SNAP! It is now broke off in the hole. Maybe it was a bad tap? It should have never broke with the amount of pressure I applied. Hanson taps are supposed to be good quality.

I need something strong enough to grab the tap, there are 4 access points around the tap to grab it. I tried needle nose pliers, they grab the tap well, but they are not strong enough to withstand the twsiting force to get it to move.

My next move it to grind it out, which is very labor intensive and I will have to go to the next larger size bolt becuse the threads will be damaged with the grinder.
 

·
That 6 Cylinder Guy
Joined
·
273 Posts
Sounds like your having a real run of bad luck here.
The tap may be a heck of a lot harder than the easyout,you may have a hard time getting it out with a carbide bit.
If you can't grab it or grind it out I suggest using the method we were discussing earlier in this thread.
But something as hard as a tap dosent take to the weld very well.
I've blown them out with a torch before,not really too hard if your careful,but you will definitely be going to a bigger hole when done.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,097 Posts

·
DETAILING GOD
Joined
·
4,266 Posts
Get some Winter green oil from your local drug store & soak it with that Also but a little squirt bottle or oil can for the stuff {dont get it in you eyes}

Alternate heating up the block & the affected bolt /tool so that they will heat up at different rates & work the W G O up in there

A few times of this will loosen it up some

Bolts & taps can be BLOWN out with a cutting torch head {smallest one you can get}

You ge t the metal you want out red hot & fluid with out getting the surrounding metal fluid this requires practice so try it on something you can throw away


Well there's my $-20.

Good luck & a picture might spark something I know & forgot

Im old ya know :pimp:

R :thumbup:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
23 Posts
re: broken tap

I have found that broken taps usually blow out pretty easy. Since the hole is open in the back and the tap has four open areas for the flame to pass, you should be able to blow the tap out with out even heating up the iron. The best thing is, if the block does stay relatively cool, you can blow everything right out of the threads. Guy's who are really good at this won't even need a tap when done. I've only done this once or twice. Unfortunately, this will leave a bunch of junk in your coolant jacket, but with the water pump off, you can probably reach most of it with your fingers. What you really need is a pile of chevy exhaust manifolds with broken studs to practice on. GOOD LUCK
 

·
Just one of the guys
Joined
·
3,080 Posts
Two things I very rarely use in the 30 years I have done machining is a 4 flute tap or a bottom tap. The main reason taps break is you have the wrong tap for the application. Either it is dull, chipped, or you are loading up the chips and binding it. If you are cleaning threads that were already previously cut, then a 4 flute is fine. If you are cutting new threads, use a 2 flute spiral point plug, then finish with a 2 or 4 flute bottom tap only going a little at a time and cleaning out the chips. Never try to cut threads with a 4 flute bottom or you are guaranteed trouble. Most taps up to 3/8 can be gotton in two flute and from 3/8 on up are either two or three flute.
As far as getting the tap out, you can find someone with a tap extractor. This is a little deal that has fingers that slide down between the flutes to aloow you to get a grip on it. Try to find a machinist in your area and he may have one. The only other way is to get a carbide burr and slowly work on it until you get it out. If you had a guide made with a drill bushing, you could drill it out with a carbide drill, but if you have never done that it is pretty risky as a carbide drill is brittle and suseptible to breakage. If you have room, put a nut over the tap and weld the two together and back it out that way.
One other little hint. When tapping heads or anything that you do not want chips getting away, use a heavy grease on the tap and the chips will stick to it.

Good luck,
Kevin
 
1 - 20 of 45 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top