[candrive55]

So.. Doing a vortec roller motor and need to start getting some stuff bought.
What I need is a timming chain set, but dont know what to get. and can i use the stock cover. I was told no.
Also need push rods but dont know what to get. I have Stock roller lifters with edelbrock rpm heads and 1.5 roller rockers.

Thanks for your help

 

[dirtinla]

Not trying to be a smart ***** here but the first thing I would buy is a book... check your local autozone. They have a good library of performance manuals. There is way too many variables to just ask a generalized question here.

Good Luck

-=Fred=-

 

[eric32]

Well first of all I just got done using a vortec block for my new build. For timing chain wise you can get any timing chain and if your using the oem type cam then you have to get one that is for a oem roller cam. If your going with a retrofit roller cam then get the usual timing chain for a small block chevy. Make sure to pick up some smaller bolts for your cam retainer plate at your local hardware store. I got the ones with a smaller bolt head they are the torx type bolt. Also you can use whatever timing cover you want just make sure it clears a double roller chain if your going that way. Now if your using electronics and will be using the crank sensor then you will have to get a gm plastic cover that has the fitting on the bottom to plug it in. More info would be helpfull. I will try to answer as many as I can.
Eric

 

[candrive55]

Hi thanks for the help. I will be using a after market roller cam from comp cams or some thing like that. Will not be using any sensors.
So that means i can run any regular sbc double roller and cover for it.
Do i just buy stock push rods for a vortec motor. I thought i read some where the rpm heads wanted shorter ones.
Also could you tell me what books have this info.
The ones i have dont cover this .
Thanks

 

[BogiesAnnex1]

So.. Doing a vortec roller motor and need to start getting some stuff bought.
What I need is a timming chain set, but dont know what to get. and can i use the stock cover. I was told no.
Also need push rods but dont know what to get. I have Stock roller lifters with edelbrock rpm heads and 1.5 roller rockers.

Thanks for your help

This can be tricky, if you don't want to get into clearance issues you need to use the gears and chain specific to roller blocks. If you're up to doing machine work, you can use other stuff. Franky, except for building a race only engine the mods to use non roller cam timing parts aren't worth the effort.

The Vortec block uses a different bolt pattern for the timing cover, these do not interchange with non-Vortec parts without some hassle. Again unless you need race specific modifications, the result isn't worth the effort.

OEM roller lifters use a shorter pushrod at 7.2 inches instead of the longer flat tappet rod of 7.8 inches. But when either decking the block, milling the heads, using a non OEM cam, heads or rockers; it's a good idea to check the sweep of the rocker tip on the valve stem as this is directly related to the affect of pushrod length on the geometry. Also, the Vortec uses a self guided rocker, the head has no provision to guide the pushrod as done in earlier designs. So when changing rockers you must do one of two things:

1) Buy and install self guiding rockers.

2) Convert to guided pushrods, this requires:
a) hardened pushrods
b) aftermarket push rod guides
c) screw in rocker studs
d) removal of the pressed in studs
e) machining necessary to lower the stud pedestal and threading the
stud hole for the screw in studs

Bogie

 

[candrive55]

Ahh i thought it wasn't that easy. Ok so i will order a timing set for a 98 tahoe??? and what about the cover. I have the old one but read i cant use it again. Also will not be using the sensors. So wont that be a problem.

The block is decked to ten and the the heads are screw in studs with guide plates and com cam 1.5 roller rockers (red ones ). I have to do more reading into what cam i want. May be i will let the machinist pick what push rods i need. Thanks again

 

[BogiesAnnex1]

Ahh i thought it wasn't that easy. Ok so i will order a timing set for a 98 tahoe??? and what about the cover. I have the old one but read i cant use it again. Also will not be using the sensors. So wont that be a problem.

The block is decked to ten and the the heads are screw in studs with guide plates and com cam 1.5 roller rockers (red ones ). I have to do more reading into what cam i want. May be i will let the machinist pick what push rods i need. Thanks again

Check the cover for fit and cracks, it's plastic and often doesn't hold up after removal, if it is crack free, not warped, the bolt holes and crank seal boss are undamaged, and you can put a new seal into it without causing damage to the cover it's safe to reuse it. Most shops start with a fresh part just to avoid warranty hassles, this is a pretty good "covering-your-contingencies" idea. When fitting it be sure to get the seal centered around the crank, be careful to keep that alignment when bolting it down otherwise you'll get an oil leak.

Having your machinist pick the rods is smart, he/she should know that hardened rods will be required and they should understand how to determine the proper length, if your interested Comp Cams has directions on how this is done in their Technical section on line.

Bogie

 

[eric32]

The vortec 350 blocks have the same bolt pattern on the timing cover as the older 2 piece rear main seal block. When you get your roller cam you will have to get a pushrod length checker. Most of the roller cams using the 1.5 rocker arms will use around 7.200 to 7.300 length pushrods but you need to get a length checker to make sure you get the right size this is very important. I used an older style aluminum timing cover from summitracing and a oem roller cam type double roller billet steel chain set from jegs and I use the torx small head typ cam bolts for my retainer and had no problems with any clearance issues what so ever. I would ditch the plastic cover and get a good steel one for around 20 bucks or so or get an aluminum one from skip white on ebay or from summit racing or jegs.
Eric

 

[candrive55]

Getting some conflicting info here.
Well the conflicting info is everywhere out there;
Nasty z28
chevy talk
This post repeats its self everywhere and nothing writing in stone.
I would rather not use the oem cover. But if i have to i have to.
Lets put this one to bed;
vortec motor needs oem single chain plastic cover or
Standard sbc double roller with standard cover? (no machine work needed)

 

[Jeff The Ruler]

Make sure to pick up some smaller bolts for your cam retainer plate at your local hardware store.

NO! No hardware store bolts. Even if they fit they are incorrect. :spank:

 

[techinspector1]

NO! No hardware store bolts. Even if they fit they are incorrect. :spank:

Not sure about your hardware Jeff, but my hardware sells Grade 8 stuff as well as lower grades.

 

[cobalt327]

What's to be avoided for ANYTHING, is unmarked h-ware from the h-ware store, or where ever.

Kills me to see guys walking through the pits, pocketing nuts and bolts they find laying around. Or from the roadside. Not to be trusted for anything more important than ammo for your slingshot.

 

[BogiesAnnex1]

Getting some conflicting info here.
Well the conflicting info is everywhere out there;
Nasty z28
chevy talk
This post repeats its self everywhere and nothing writing in stone.
I would rather not use the oem cover. But if i have to i have to.
Lets put this one to bed;
vortec motor needs oem single chain plastic cover or
Standard sbc double roller with standard cover? (no machine work needed)

The covers are not exactly the same bolt pattern, the non Vortec uses 10 bolts, the Vortec uses 8, 6 of which are the same as the non-Vortec and 2 are different. You can swap them in that the boss face pattern is the same and with some drilling and tapping you can get there.

So the fitting of a standard cover is a definite maybe. The non-Vortec blocks (LT1 & 4 excepted) use a 10 bolt, 2 pin metal cover with no provision for a crank sensor, and have a replaceable crank seal. The 880 Vortec block uses an 8 bolt 2 pin cover with a not replaceable crank seal which includes the mounting boss for the EFI crank sensor. The 6 of the 8 bolts do match to the same locations as they would be found on a 10 bolt cover, so there is a chance of interchange, but it isn't always that simple.

Some early 880 blocks came drilled, and sometimes, tapped with the 10 original bolt cover pattern, they were used with TBI in some non-California applications in 1995 and 96, but most 880's aren't so fashioned. To use a 10 bolt cover on a un-prepped block, assuming you're no longer using Vortec injection which requires a crank position sensor that isn't on the tin cover, you would have to drill and tap the extra holes which would require you remove the intake to collect chips that fall into the engine.

All of this is doable if your skills are up to it. The other way is to ignore the lack of bolts and just put a lot of glue where there aren't any bolts.

When using a standard cover over the OEM roller cam timing set, sometimes you get contact between the chain and cover. The quick and dirty solution is to add gaskets. The one I prefer is to use the two piece removable cover. These however are not made to the newer profile for the lip gasket between the cover and oil pan. You'll have to make trial fits with an older gasket and trim it to fit properly. A lot of extra work, but makes life a lot simpler when you have to go in to change the timing set, crank seal, or the cam.

Bogie

 

[candrive55]

Anyway can some one put covers back to back and see?

 

[BogiesAnnex1]

Anyway can some one put covers back to back and see?

Done, look up to my last entry.

Bogie

 

[Jeff The Ruler]

Not sure about your hardware Jeff, but my hardware sells Grade 8 stuff as well as lower grades.

If its verified good bolts then sure why not, cheaper too, but I was talking about guys who dig through the random bolts bin and find the "least worst" .wrong thread count, wrong cap/heads...

 

[cobalt327]

Darn, Bogie, think you can get your junk any rustier? lol

Also, notice that where the older block used dowel pins (male pins in block, holes in tin cover), the Vortec plastic cover has the male pins (larger diameter than older blocks dowel pins) in the same location.

As seen below, this 880 block has all the holes present and tapped. The dowels are missing, the holes are larger to mate w/the plastic covers male pins.

 

[BogiesAnnex1]

Darn, Bogie, think you can get your junk any rustier? lol

Also, notice that where the older block used dowel pins (male pins in block, holes in tin cover), the Vortec plastic cover has the male pins (larger diameter than older blocks dowel pins) in the same location.

As seen below, this 880 block has all the holes present and tapped. The dowels are missing, the holes are larger to mate w/the plastic covers male pins.

Hey this is Seattle; we don't tan, we rust.

Bogie

 

[cobalt327]

Hey this is Seattle; we don't tan, we rust.

Bogie

Aww, I tossed you an easy one- and you didn't get it out of the park...

That was MY junk I was referring to! LOL

 

[ssmonty]

Sorry if I'm highjacking a thread, but while you guys are on the subject, my cast alum. timing cover seems as if its going to need reamed out for the dowel pins to fit. I'm worried that I won't get them correctly centered and cause the seal to be off center. I've got an 880 block also and I'm wanting to know what would be the consequences if I omit installing the dowel pins in the block. Is it a common practice or strictly taboo?
Thanks,
ssmonty