[JOgo]

I am brand spanking new at the old car game. I want to remove all rust spots from my car. How do I go about doing this? There is bubble rust and soft spots. It is my understanding that I just need to sand these spots down till the metal is showing and all rust is gone and then hit it with primer. I am green, what kind of sand paper do I use? What kind of primer do I use? How many coats do I need to put on? Is there a good book out there that explains all these type of things so I don't have to ask so many remedial questions? any and all advice is apreciated

 

[Maverick]

Iam not HK but I give ya a little advise. One way you can do it your self is with a wire wheel on a angle grinder. But be carefull!! You can get hurt with it!! Be sure to were leather gloves, dust mask and eye protection! Work it down to bare metal with that then spray some rustolum primer on it spray couple coats to get good coverage, let it dry then scuff it with 220 sand paper and the spread a little Bondo on it then sand that down smooth and spray some color on it.
Now if its rusted all the way thru the best thing is to cut it all out and weld in a patch panel into it. How dose that sound HK?

 

[JOgo]

I hope this dosen't sound dumb but... Where can I get a wire wheel and an angle grinder? Are there different types of wire wheels? If so which one do I need to get?

 

[Maverick]

I got my angle grinder at home depot it is a Dewalt they are tough! It was about 50 bucks. Wire wheels, yes there are differant ones get them at home depot also the "knotted" one works best. Go check them out and you will see what I am talking about. I CAN NOT STRESS ENOUGH the importance of protective gear. I have had a piece of that wire wheel dug out of my eye and it wasnt fun! WERE EYE PROTECTION! Hope this helps!
Be safe and have fun!

 

[JOgo]

Thanks maverick, I understand the need for protective gear, and I will be careful. Much thanks.

JOgo

 

[Halloweenking]

Jogo, maverick is partly correct. If its mostly surface rust and not rusted through you can use an angle grinder with a BRASS wire wheel. The stainless steel knotted wire wheels do work, but they could harm and even dig through the thinning sheetmetal. My Advice to you since your new to this and havn't gotten the hang of an angle grinder yet is to use sandpaper on a DA sander. Start out with 36-40 grit to get all the pait and rust off, then use a 80-220 grit after the hard to get off stuff is gone. After the rust is gone coat it with one or two coats of sealer, not primer but sealer. Primer is porus and it will absord moisture and you'll be right back where you started. Now if the area is rusted through you must cut that infected area out and repair with a new peice of sheetmetal through welding. You cut the area out with an angle grinder with a cutting disc or saws all with a fine metal cutting blade. If you need further help let me know, be glad to help.

All the tools mentioned above are available at any hardware or home improvment warhouse. The DA sander is an air powerd tool and will need an air supply. It is an orbital sander. A rotery drill and sanding disc atachment will work, but the DA is best.

HK

[ October 07, 2002: Message edited by: Halloweenking ]</p>

 

[JOgo]

What does DA in DA sander stand for? I just searched home depot.com and all it gave me was a group of orbit sanders. Is this what I am looking for?

What kind of "sealer" should I get? Are there different types of sealer? Or is there just one kind. Do I need special stuff for an auto?

Thanks So much for your help.

 

[Halloweenking]

Any orbital sander will work, DA is just the best and most exspensive $150-$210.

There are different types of sealers, but if you go into your local auto paint shop they should be able to give you what you need and explain it for you face to face. You can use primer if your going to paint it right away, but its not recomended if it will be a while before paint and it will be out in the elements. If you have any more questions feel free to PM/e-mail me.

HK

 

[Kevin45]

DA= Dual Action.

Kevin

 

[Maverick]

www.harborfreight.com You can look here. Home depot has DA Sanders at least the one here dose. You can learn a lot by actually going and looking around there or auto parts store to get ideas. Sealing primers usually say "sealing primer". Sometime when you start doing a little spot like that you get a little excited and before you know it you have the whole car stripped! HAHAHA So know your limits. Thats how I ended up with a VW bus one time. Still sold it for more then I gave and it was completely stripped and all the windows out! There a sucker everyday! hahaha

 

[JOgo]

I think I am going to have to go with the orbital sander. I am a poor graduate student and don't have much cash (just spent it all on a car) The DA sanders are cheap, but the air compressors to power them are the opposite of cheap.

 

[TurboS10]

Originally posted by JOgo:
<strong>I think I am going to have to go with the orbital sander. I am a poor graduate student and don't have much cash (just spent it all on a car) The DA sanders are cheap, but the air compressors to power them are the opposite of cheap.</strong><hr></blockquote>

The best thing I have found is an electric orbital that sears sells for $50. It uses 7 inch stick ons and has a flexible pad so it contours to the body well. I have only seen these at the big mall store.

chris

 

[slider]

Yup, and I have an electric orbital DeWalt from the orange guys. It seems to be OK as well. You can even hook the vacuum cleaner to to keep the work area semi clean. Sanding dust is NASTY. Get it on your shoes and it will follow you everywhere.

 

[Don Meyer]

Another way of doing it.....after the rust is sanded off use Ospho(phos acid) on it. Wait 48 hrs,wire brush off the residue & prime w/PPG's epoxy primer(using the 401 NOT the 402 hardner).....however, since you are a beginner I would recommend that you go to a local trade school & take a course in autobody repair. I did this 30 yrs ago & have gone to PPG's school in 1994.I recommend this because There are a lot of body/paint experts that are not up w/the modern products that give better results than older products.....Don........Ps
I restore expensive classic cars(mainly Rolls Royces) & can not afford to make a error. The average paint job(doors off) is $11,000.00 & are 100% covered for 5 yrs.
If anyone is having problems w/body work,MIG/TiG welders,HVLP spray guns, air compressors or relatted topics pls ask on this forum & send me a E-mail message that you have posted a question

 

[spankyway]

This is not a difficult practice but it is labor intensive. PPg now offers a "roll on" primer that I understand is pretty good. I work for a paint and body supply store and we sell both PPg and DuPont. I prefer DuPont myself, more user friendly.

 

[tm454]

Some books from the Library might help. Ask a lot of questions, mistakes are not hard to come by but good help it not always available. The rust won't get worse overnight, unless you have bare metal. You must seal the cleaned up areas if the car sets out overnight, and keep your bare hands/fingers off the paintless metal, it will cause rust or the new paint not to stick.

 

[waltmail]

Depending on the depth of the rust, the proper answer is elusive at best. If you don't want the rust to reappear a short time later, all of the rust needs to removed. This may sound like a simplified answer, but how many times have you seen a car at a cruise in and seen bubbles under a nice shiny paint job. My approach is to first treat the spots with a phosphoric acid solution, which is available at any paint supply or home repair store. This will convert rust to harmless powder and will give you better insight as to your level of rust. If you have surface rust, do not use a high grit grinding disk or the scratches will be difficult to cover up down the road. 3M makes a charcoal sponge like grinding wheel that will fit any drill head. It will do the least damage. If you have rust through, you need to remove ALL dead metal. Don't be afraid to pokes holes in suspected metal using a screw driver or awl. If it is soft, it will reappear. Once all of the rust is removed, determine whether or not replacement metal is in order. If it is just surface rust re-treat with the phosphoric acid solution. Any ,exposed to the surface metal, should be covered with a self etching primer. Try not to use rattle can products as they usually react unfavorably with top coats. Any swirl marks or scratches may be covered with " build " primer. Again , no rattle can products. Many coats of concentrated build primer will cover deep scratches. If you are happy with the cover of the build primer, use 320 grit wet/dry sandpaper and wet sand the surface using a sanding block. I prefer wrapping a full sheet around a paint stirring stick. It will wrap around about 3 or 4 times and allow you to peel off fresh surfaces of the paper as it wears out. If you use finer than 320 grit, the top paint might not adhere. Any less than 320 and scratches will be obvious. You have most likely heard that a good paint job is 95 % prep. Believe it. If you can see flaws, it is not nearly ready to paint. If you can feel them it is not ready. Have fun

 

[tlambert]

Sounds like waltmail has done this before!

 

[Grashopr]

Hey HK...you ever tried to use Muriatic Acid to remove rust? I saw an article on it in this months' Street Rod Builder (or On the Road...a 3-month add-on to SRB) that showed how to use Mur Acid to remove rust by just soaking and wiping. The Acid apparently breaks down the rust to where it can be wiped away. The article says that it CAN eat the metal, also..and that the Acid needs to be neutralized with water or Lacquer thinner to keep it from continuing after you have wiped off the rust. They show a couple of medium-sized running boards that were COVERED in surface rust completely taken to bare metal in 20 min. I have a couple of peices that I am thinking of trying this on this weekend. Any thoughts?

The 'hopper

 

[augie]

Well there's some basic information that needs to be given here I can't beleive hasn't been given. BEFORE any sealers go down on bare metal use a wash primer. seal the metal itself. Putting paint sealer down doesn't do the trick and it's improper. On no matter what paint job I'm doing custom/collision etc, whenever bare metal is showing I use a product from PPG called wash primer. It has a minimul amount of acid in it that when applied will actually turn the rust black and seal the rest the metal. I HAVE NEVER had any jobs come back in all the years I have used this. I have used this product with many differnt primers also. PPG Part # 1791 and #1792. After you have sealed the metal you can then think about fillers and primers over that. Then apply your paint sealer over your primer. allow proper flashing times and shoot your base or single stage over that.
Acid products work well. So do hand wire brushes for removing the now turned black rust instead of a DA. Some don't know this, but a DA will actually warp thin metal IF an unexperienced person leaves a DA on one spot to long to get the area hot and make the metal expand one way or another thus warpage and more straightning. Also the hand held wire brush wont just scratch the top of the surface as the DA will. it will go deeper into rust(pits) not on the surface.
Just my 2cents of over 25 years painting and bodywork.