[Infinite Monkeys]

I do realize this is probably a stupid question, but here is it......

I'm no expert, I've done 3 other gear swaps. This one is kicking my butt.

I can not get the crush sleeve to crush by hand. (getting older and just had appendix surgery)
I had a 4' cheater bar and after hours of trying, I took out the crush sleeve and pressed it just a hair in my press. I'm still not to the point of taking the play out of the pinion. I want to keep taking the sleeve out and crushing it (out of spite!) in my press till I can take the free-play out and then try and get it to pre-load specs.
I talked to Yukon gear tech and was told it takes about 1000 to 1200 lbs of torque to crush the sleeve.

Is this an acceptable way to do this? Axle is a 2008 Jeep Rubicon, front Dana 44.

Thanks.

 

[joe_padavano]

I had to do exactly this for the crush sleeve in the 14 bolt axle in my crewcab dually. I used my press to get it started, then installed it on the pinon and torqued the nut.
Full disclosure: I over-crushed the first one and had to do it a second time.

 

[Infinite Monkeys]

I have 2 other new sleeves, so having to start over isn't a big deal. Now that I've slept on it, it's seeming like a viable option. And I figure there's a very good chance I'll over-crush on the first try.
I'm waiting on a yoke holding tool. I bent my other, home-made one. Surprising that one held up for 2 Ford 8.8's and a Dana 30, but bent like nothing for a Dana 44.

Thanks.

 

[chasracer]

When I used to race 12 bolts, the trick was to take the old sleeve put it over a piece of tubing and hammer it out a bit. I never put a new one in and never had a problem with the rear.

 

[Infinite Monkeys]

So, it's looking like I'm not completely off the mark here. I'll keep trying today and see how it turns out. I have to wait for the holding tool for the final torque anyway and that'll be another week.

"The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem."

^ That's why this is my favorite site, a lot of people here have the right attitude!

Thanks again.

 

[joe_padavano]

When I used to race 12 bolts, the trick was to take the old sleeve put it over a piece of tubing and hammer it out a bit. I never put a new one in and never had a problem with the rear.

That's a very clever idea. I've got a problem sourcing crush sleeves for an axle that is not supported with replacement parts (1966-70 Oldsmobile 9.375" Type O used in full size cars - and this is not the 57-64 Olds/Pontiac axle). This may have just saved me from fabricating a solid "crush" sleeve. Thanks.

 

[big gear head]

Joe Padavano you can use shims with your crush spacer. When you hammer it this makes it weaker. You can just add a .010 shim to it and use it again. Have you checked with Ratech to see if they have a new crush spacer for it? I built a few of those rear ends back when I had my rear end shop and I believe they had spacers for it. Also contact Jim at www.jdrace.com He builds a lot of those rear ends.

 

[joe_padavano]

Joe Padavano you can use shims with your crush spacer. When you hammer it this makes it weaker. You can just add a .010 shim to it and use it again. Have you checked with Ratech to see if they have a new crush spacer for it? I built a few of those rear ends back when I had my rear end shop and I believe they had spacers for it. Also contact Jim at www.jdrace.com He builds a lot of those rear ends.

I checked EVERYWHERE. Again, NO ONE supports this axle. Yes, I know and contacted Jim. Yes I checked Ratech, DTS, and others. Yes, I even searched dimensions of crush sleeves for other axles that might be close (the crush sleeve for a Chrysler 8.75 MIGHT be able to be machined to work).

Yeah, I'm aware shims are another option. Strength isn't the design requirement for a crush sleeve, it's stiffness. Basically it's a high rate spring. Hammering on steel does not change it's stiffness - the modulus of elasticity is inherent in the material. On the other hand, once you start to crush it, you have initiated a buckle in the tubular sleeve - this actually does change stiffness. Adding shims doesn't increase stiffness. This is like standing on an empty coke can, then tapping the sides in.

 

[big gear head]

Joe, if you bend a piece of metal over and over it gets weaker each time you bend it until it breaks. When you crush a spacer and then hammer it and crush it again it won't be as stiff the second time. This is what I meant when I said it would be weaker. Adding a shim to it will not make it stronger or weaker, but will add thickness to it so that it can continue to be crushed in the same direction. Do it however you want, but when I have to use a spacer again I use a shim.

 

[joe_padavano]

Joe, if you bend a piece of metal over and over it gets weaker each time you bend it until it breaks. When you crush a spacer and then hammer it and crush it again it won't be as stiff the second time. This is what I meant when I said it would be weaker. Adding a shim to it will not make it stronger or weaker, but will add thickness to it so that it can continue to be crushed in the same direction. Do it however you want, but when I have to use a spacer again I use a shim.

That's fatigue, which is a completely different issue from either strength or stiffness. There are published curves (called S/N curves) for fatigue life vs number of cycles for metals based on extensive testing. Straightening a part once won't measurably change fatigue life and definitely doesn't change the modulus of elasticity of the metal.

Stiffness of a sleeve depends on two properties - the modulus of elasticity and the geometry of the sleeve. If the sleeve has already been crushed, you have started a buckle and changed the angles of the part of the sleeve that crushes. Adding a shim further changes the geometry of this buckle since you are starting with the sleeve already deformed from the previous use. This lowers the effective stiffness. A cylinder with no deformations in its sides is stiffer in compression than one that has a bead rolled around its center. Is it enough to matter from a practical standpoint when reusing a sleeve? Probably not.

 

[Infinite Monkeys]

How about using crush sleeve eliminators.
I'm starting to think about that now.
I started with taking out the crush collar and crush it in my press, I went slowly. Probably took it out and crushed it about 10 separate times. I got close, but over shot and started over. This time I pre-crushed a new collar to where there was just a hair of free play and then tried to finish it off by hand but didn't get far. Still have some free play that I can't take out. I could keep going, but I think my cheap press will not allow me to get that exact, 'cause everything is bending and I can't tell just how far I've gone just on the collar.

So back to the eliminator..... Looks like those are designed so you add or remove shims till you get the preload and then just torque the heck out the nut. Is this correct, or is there more to it?

Or, am I doing something wrong?

Thanks again.

 

[ericnova72]

You have it right on the crush sleeve eliminator, it is just a solid sleeve and some shims, you adjust shim thickness to achieve correct rotational resistance(preload) in the pinion bearings and tighten the pinion nut up solid.

 

[lmsport]

Ratech makes their smartsleeve for many popular diffs.

Smart Sleeve

 

[Infinite Monkeys]

Looks like the smart sleeve isn't available for my application, front or rear.
But that looks like a pretty amazing product. Thankfully I do have other options.
I'll continue to work on it.
Thanks.

 

[Infinite Monkeys]

After ordering the new sleeve eliminators and finishing my 3rd beer, I decided to give it one last try with the last new crush sleeve and new pinion nut I had...........and I got it!!! (beer muscles)
Then I over shot. Dang it!!
I am done with the crush collars, going with the eliminators. It'll be a week before they come in the mail and will get back to it then.
I have a question about the pinion seal. I've had the yoke on and off now about a dozen times with the new seal in place. I'm wondering if I should just swap it out. I've been careful of not damaging it, but that is a lot of times the yoke has come out. Any thoughts on that?
Also, the other plus side of removing it would be that I can use my outer, setup bearing for setting up the preload, which would make getting the pinion out a whole lot easier.

 

[Infinite Monkeys]

I got a sleeve eliminator kit, came with only 5 shims. When I use all the shims, there is no preload and when I remove the thinnest one, there is too much.
I'm now lost on where to go from here.

Options I can think of is to file down the collar on the eliminator kit and hopefully get it to spec.

Or use a shim with one of the old crush collars and see if I can get it to spec that way, I'm leaning more to this option.

Any thoughts are appreciated.
Thanks again.

 

[brading]

You could try using a Torque Multiplier with the crush sleeve. You can hire them in some places.

 

[brading]

Here's a video on using a torque multiplier.

 

[big gear head]

If you file the spacer you will probably get high and low spots on it. Have you removed the burrs from the edges of the shims?

Using a shim with the crush spacer will work fine. I've done that several times on rear ends where there is no new crush spacer available.

 

[Infinite Monkeys]

I think I'm gonna love the torque multiplier. Watched the video and found a used one for $160 on ebay, it's on the way.
It's the X-4, made in the USA, 1000 lb output. Figured it's probably decent.

I did not clean up the burs, although I did notice them. I'll keep that in mind for the future.

This crush collar has kicked my butt for the last time (I hope). Hemi swap will be cake compared to the pinion nut. Axle has been out for almost a month now, so another week is no big deal.

Returning the eliminator and getting another crush collar.

Thank you again.