[Daimyo68]

Hello all, glad I came across the forums here. I've read through several posts to find a solution to my issue, but at wits end now.

Issue/s:
--When put into gear, rpms drop to ~650, all seems fine, drive car to first stop sign/light, it stalls. Car will sometimes restart without issue, but stalls as soon as its put into gear.
--Same as above, but will not restart sometimes.
--With both issues, seems to only be after the car has started to warm up.

I have confirmed as much as possible: Timing, Vacuum/leaks, air/fuel adjustment, fuel pressure, voltage/s to all components (dist, ign, etc), spark plugs, wires, running temps, oil press.

The car originally had dual quads, and I always felt it was overkill, so I swapped them out for a single carb setup, but still have the same identical issue.

We have owned to vehicle for 8 years, driven when weather permits. The problem showed up about a year ago, and was inconsistent until the end of last summer. I have been trying to solve it since then.

I'm leaning towards a possible trans/conveter problem, as it bangs into gear now from nuetral to drive or reverse. But even if there is a trans issue, that doesn't explain the no re-start issue.


Info:
1923 Ford T-Bucket
Chevy 350, .040 overbore
Unknown Cam specs (original build sheet only says "High Performance Cam to match Dual Quads).
Turbo 400 Trans with 2800 stall speed converter
373 10bolt Posi Rear

Hope to get some ideas on where to go next! Thanks

 

[68NovaSS]

Sure sounds like a vacuum leak, possibly the vac line off the trans vac modulator? Or a cracked vacuum hose, they can be hard to spot without a pump.

 

[Daimyo68]

Thats what I was thinking at the first onset of the idling issue.

I have gone to the point of disconnecting all vacuum lines and plugging off as needed, with no change in the way it acts.

 

[Daimyo68]

Went through everything again concerning the idle/stall issue. Found the carb mixture needed to be adjusted. Got that set to edelbrock specs, car was idling great, put it in drive, idle was a little low, made it 10 feet car stalled. Restart - now has poor idle again, and hard starting.

I'm starting to think the distributor may be the culprit. Its a points distributor, new points, condensor, mechanical advance springs are ok.

I'm going to recheck power and grounds again and alternator output.

 

[Daimyo68]

Just some more info:

Replaced distributor with electronic distributor... no change, same issue.

Anybody?

 

[Daimyo68]

You have a defective ignition key switch or a problem at the starter solenoid.
engine Ground fault

And the Cool Street Rod Gods/Police want you to reinstall the dual quad.

You will be harassed with mysterious car issues until you do.

It's a pretty simple system, I can upload a schematic that I made of the electrical system if needed. I've checked and rechecked the entire system and found no problems at all.

Rest assured, since the changing of the manifold and carb proved to not fix anything, the quads are going back on once this is figured out.

Here's a picture of the car if anyones interested:

 

[kg44gasser]

hard start

check for possible vapor lock.

 

[Daimyo68]

Checked for possible vapor locking, but no issue found. Fuel is always available at a steady rate.

Ok, here's what I did for possibly the 3rd or 4th time:

Check for vacuum leaks - All ok. If I cover the carb, I can stall the motor. I've capped off all 4 ports on the carb. I've sprayed around the carb base and intake with no rise in rpms.

Fuel Pressure checked and adjusted to 5.5psi in spec with Edelbrock requirments.

Ignition system - All power and grounds checked with DVOM, all ok.
-Timing - set at 12* BTDC (no vacuum advance) Total of 38* with vacuum and mechanical adv.
-Confirmed Timing mark against #1 TDC using piston stop - Ok
-Confirmed Distributor installed at correct clock position
Alternator - Charging at acceptable level (13-14v loaded).

Carburetor/s - Adjusted to manufacturer spec on Idle Circuits using DVOM and Vacuum Gauge

Valve Train - Adjusted valves at operating temperature, while running.

I'm really at a loss here now. I've checked checked and rechecked everything.

We are going to put the dual quads back on and see if anything has changed. It's possible that the carb and manifold he got from his brother had an issue that his brother didn't own up to, but weird that with either setup, we have the same condition.

Again, it's 2 issues. We are tackling the idle/stall issue right now. Once we have that solved, we will move onto the possible converter issue. It makes no sense to try and figure that one out if we can get the car idling properly.

Issue #1 - Car will idle when cool. We can get it to idle decent and then it will just slowly stall itself out. No dieseling/pinging when it stalls.
- One thing to add is that it happens more often as the car reaches operating temps.

Issue #2 - When put into drive, the car bangs into gear, almost as if the converter is in a lockup state (1:1)

 

[cobalt327]

Checked for possible vapor locking, but no issue found. Fuel is always available at a steady rate.

Ok, here's what I did for possibly the 3rd or 4th time:

Check for vacuum leaks - All ok. If I cover the carb, I can stall the motor. I've capped off all 4 ports on the carb. I've sprayed around the carb base and intake with no rise in rpms.

Fuel Pressure checked and adjusted to 5.5psi in spec with Edelbrock requirments.

Ignition system - All power and grounds checked with DVOM, all ok.
-Timing - set at 12* BTDC (no vacuum advance) Total of 38* with vacuum and mechanical adv.
-Confirmed Timing mark against #1 TDC using piston stop - Ok
-Confirmed Distributor installed at correct clock position
Alternator - Charging at acceptable level (13-14v loaded).

Carburetor/s - Adjusted to manufacturer spec on Idle Circuits using DVOM and Vacuum Gauge

Valve Train - Adjusted valves at operating temperature, while running.

I'm really at a loss here now. I've checked checked and rechecked everything.

We are going to put the dual quads back on and see if anything has changed. It's possible that the carb and manifold he got from his brother had an issue that his brother didn't own up to, but weird that with either setup, we have the same condition.

Again, it's 2 issues. We are tackling the idle/stall issue right now. Once we have that solved, we will move onto the possible converter issue. It makes no sense to try and figure that one out if we can get the car idling properly.

Issue #1 - Car will idle when cool. We can get it to idle decent and then it will just slowly stall itself out. No dieseling/pinging when it stalls.
- One thing to add is that it happens more often as the car reaches operating temps.

Issue #2 - When put into drive, the car bangs into gear, almost as if the converter is in a lockup state (1:1)

To eliminate the existing wiring and switch, remove the wire from the coil "+" side so there is no wiring connected from the wiring harness to the coil. Tape the end so it cannot short.

Hot wire the coil by running a jumper wire from the battery "+" terminal to the coil "+" terminal. If you use a resistor wire or ballast resistor, add a ballast resistor to the jumper wire (NOT the same one on it now)- it should still start fine even w/the current reduced unless the plugs or secondary ignition is bad- which is sounds like will not be the case, considering the previous work and checking you've done.

Start the engine and see what the results are. Remember the key will not work- you will need to disconnect the jumper to shut the engine off.

 

[AutoGear]

Hey Mark?

How many neighbors did you terrorize by moving their cars with this method?
This is also why its laughable to watch a movie and see some doofus fiddling around under the dash and the car mystically starts.

 

[cobalt327]

Off topic warning

Hey Mark?

How many neighbors did you terrorize by moving their cars with this method?
This is also why its laughable to watch a movie and see some doofus fiddling around under the dash and the car mystically starts.

lol, no never messed w/the neighbors- but in our 'yard, it was how I was shown to see if an engine would start before removing for storage.

OT- We didn't have unlimited storage space so as the 'yard filled up, the good parts were removed from the vehicles that had been there the longest or had been picked over, etc.

Then the stripped out hulks were burned down w/a cup of gas through the window (can you imagine doing that today?:evil, shoved onto a crusher that would come by when needed, then loaded onto flatbeds and hauled away. IIRC we got about $12/per back then.

There used to be big puddles of shiny silver body lead left on the ground that would cook out of the body seams that I'd find and put into the scrap drum. I'd also cut the wiring looms out of them before torching; that was mine to burn down and take in for scrap. Kind of like earning a tip. The 6V cars actually had some weight to the looms...

 

[kg44gasser]

stalling

still sounds like a fuel issue. you can have fuel pressure but no flow. check routing of fuel line. vapor lock is simply heat creating air bubbles in fuel line. unhook fuel line and you will have flow. buubles will disapate as line cools.

 

[Daimyo68]

Ok, tried bypassing the ignition switch as recommended above, still the same issue.

Gas tank is almost empty. We are going to put in gas that has no Ethenol content and see if that makes a difference.

We are also going to run a hose from the can to the pump to bypass the existing lines that have always been in the same location. It would be strange that we would get vapor lock now without it ever being an issue in the past. The car was here in Florida for 4 years without issue, then in Georgia for 2 years and now back here in FL. The idling issue only showed up after coming back to Florida.

 

[Daimyo68]

The Gas didn't make any difference.

Did a compression test, 148-150psi across the board.

Any other ideas?

 

[cullencombs]

Sound like the converter could be some of the issue but not all. Have you done a Vacuum reading on it?

 

[cdminter59]

I read in setting timing you set initial at 12* with vacuum line disconnected and plugged. Total of 38* total mechanical and vacuum. After setting initial at 12* idle engine to 3000 set dial of timing light on 36* and check timing again. Should be reading "0" on the scale. The mechanical advance should have a range from 20-25*. If initial is 12+25=37* Now you know how much initial to increase to get 38*. Now unplug vacuum hose and reinstall and that is it. Read this info to understand better than what I told you . http://www.corvette-restoration.com/resources/technical_papers/Timing101.pdf

 

[monster76]

To check if its fuel an easy is 5 gallon gas can little 5psi ump and some hose to route them together if it runs good then most likely some rubber hose some where has swelled up giving you pressure with no volume

 

[Daimyo68]

I read in setting timing you set initial at 12* with vacuum line disconnected and plugged. Total of 38* total mechanical and vacuum. After setting initial at 12* idle engine to 3000 set dial of timing light on 36* and check timing again. Should be reading "0" on the scale. The mechanical advance should have a range from 20-25*. If initial is 12+25=37* Now you know how much initial to increase to get 38*. Now unplug vacuum hose and reinstall and that is it. Read this info to understand better than what I told you . http://www.corvette-restoration.com/resources/technical_papers/Timing101.pdf

I did this as soon as we installed the new distributor. Initial timing at 10, and 12, with total up to 36,38,40. None have made a difference.

It's almost as if the engine is loosing it's ability to pull the fuel in, and of course, as the engine winds down to a stall, vacuum drops off as expected.

Sound like the converter could be some of the issue but not all. Have you done a Vacuum reading on it?

Vacuum at cold idle is roughly 15"hg. I suspect the converter may be part of the issue, but it has yet to be confirmed for sure. I'm going to be hooking up a pressure gauge to the test port on the trans to test converter pressure, as well as testing the governor via a vacuum gauge.


Any and all suggestion are welcomed! I'm almost down to the point of tearing the cam out to have a look at the lobes.

 

[cdminter59]

After driving and the T-Bucket stalls. Have you looked inside the carburetor to see how much fuel is squirting when opening throttle? Check accelerator pump. Can you borrow another carburetor from someone to see if it's the carburetor? What I am saying after you set the initial and mechanical advance you should run about 36* total. When you plug the vacuum hose back to the distributor you should have a reading of 56* total. Also is this vacuum hose connected to manifold vacuum port? If not try that. Another thing when you checked with gas from a can you need to bypass your pump using an electric pump. BTW do you have any fuel filters that might be half plugged?

 

[T-bucket23]

Ok I have a couple questions

1 Does it ever die except when stopping at a light.
2 You said sometimes it doesn't restart, what do you do to get it restarted.
3 Have you tried turning the idle up to maybe 750 to see if it doesnt stall (not
the solution just a troubleshooting step).
4 if you put it in gear, hold the brake and stab the gas a little real quick does it
stall.

Sounds to me that your idle may be a little low and I am curious if your choke is functioning properly.
People tend to lower the idle on T-Buckets or they are very hard to hold still at a light or stop sign due to the light weight.
I think you may have more than one issue. You have eliminated a few possibilities with some of the suggestions here.