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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Every where you look this Christmas(except here it seems) it's Happy HOLIDAYS and prosperous new year! What has happened to CHRISTmas? If you are a believer or not, Christmas is about Christ and we need to remember that. I have even heard on one TV commercial to buy that product for a HOLIDAY gift this year. If someone or a company is not a believer in the true meaning of Christmas then that is their right and I respect that right BUT please don't insult the rest of us by going out of the way to eliminate the TRUE spirit of CHRISTmas.
 

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What Happened to Christmas?

Good point oldred!

By far, most Americans believe in the true meaning of Christmas and the The Christmas Miracle. The vast majority believe that the Bible is true, that God exists and He sent his only son to this earth to pay the penalties for all sin, and that putting your faith in that fact, you will be pardoned on the Day of Judgment. You can read about that here. That being said, what happened to the true meaning of Christmas?

I think it can be summed up with one word, or should I say acronym: ACLU. They represent a small minority of people who would rather make up their own rules regarding what is “right” and “wrong”. According to these folks, God does not define this, but man. Read about the ACLU stealing Christmas here.

Any mention of God or Christ is forbidden. I mean the Constitution clearly states “Separation of Church and State”, right? :rolleyes: What’s sad is that although the word God is mentioned in the Declaration of Independence, the ACLU is trying to get that out of schools as well. Read about that one here.

They are slowly whittling away at all these core values established by our forefathers who clearly believed that Government without God will not survive. Read this article regarding that subject. These were primarily Christian men, but somehow that is conveniently ignored by the far left. And with the help of organizations like the ACLU, the mainstream press, and other elite minority groups, they are slowly changing what can be taught in schools and displayed on public property, including Christmas.

That’s just my humble opinion, Ed

BTW - Merry Christmas! :D
 

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Didnt we just have this thread?

http://de.essortment.com/christmaspagan_rece.htm

While I respect ones right to say whatever they want, For those of you who are truly "christian" I dont understand the fuss. The holiday traditons of christmas, all are rooted in pagan rituals. and indeed most experts agree that Christ was probably not born on Dec 25th.

Why are major Christian holidays layered on older Pagan festivals? The central reason is that as Christianity was struggling for acceptance in Europe, the country-folk would not give up their age-old traditions. By blending the old with the new, it was easier for the Church to convert the locals.
 

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Re: What Happened to Christmas?

edge said:
Good point oldred!

By far, most Americans believe in the true meaning of Christmas and the The Christmas Miracle.
Oh so do you base ALL of your facts on news week polls? see the thing about polls is they can EASILY be manipulated! How many people were in the poll? it doesnt say! Where and who were the pollees? doesnt say! I mean it could have been a group of 10 church women for all you know. To rely on results of a poll as fact and to post the results as fact is quite misleading. This is same Thing that O'reilly and Limbaugh do. They quote misleading numbers as fact to bolster their opinions and perpetuate them as FACT. But we do know that newsweek is owned by Washington Post Co. and the Chariman of the Board is Warren Buffet ....hmmmm


edge said:

pardoned on the Day of Judgment. You can read about that here.
One guys personal opinions, and I respect that...hardly fact, however.


edge said:

Read about the ACLU stealing Christmas here.
Again a SLIGHTLY biased opion coming from CSN, which is owned by MRC (Media Research), whose mission statement basically says that they slant their news to the conservative right, to balance out a "liberal bias" in main stream news



edge said:

Read about that one here.
here is another "view" on this story
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/12/08/MNGPBA8DPL1.DTL
as you can see their is another ANGLE on this story. Is he "just trying to teach history" or is he "a religous nut job forcing his opinions on kids" My guess? a little from column A a little from Colum B


edge said:
Oh and Hal Lindsey , certainly isnt going to have a BIASED view consdering that his whole philosphy is "dedicated to news analysis of current events from the perspective
of Bible prophecy"

Edge you seem like a nice guy. But It would be just as easy for me to come on and post a bunch of "articles" (by the way I wouldnt call someones personal opinion an "article") that would show an opposite opinion. I would certainly hope that you dont "believe" something just because some one else writes it down. There are two sides to every story. If the Goverment were all of sudden to switch to SATANism and everyone was to quote satanic verses in school, wouldnt you make a fuss, then wouldnt you see where people who get mad about spearation of church and state come from? This country was founded on RELIGOUS FREEDOM, not CHRISTIANITY, and I have asked this before, please tell me where in the constitution (or anywhere) it says that we were founded on christianity. I respect your right to be chrisitian, and to say "merry christmas". But How come its so hard for people to respect other beliefs and their wishes not to be bombarded with someone elses religious beliefs?
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
Crazy-As I said I respect everyone's right to believe as they want but I would hope that you would grant me the same right. Politics has nothing to do with it, Christmas is based on Christ, hence the very name CHRISTmas. It seems that to many people want to join in and celebrate this very Christian holiday but they want to change it to suit their own beliefs. They can Celebrate Christmas any way they want but they should accept it for what it is and don't try to change it into something it's not.
 

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Well I think the point is that CHRISTmas wasn't originally a Christian holiday. It was adopted from previous pagan traditions. I'm not sure that's significant at all. Its as good a time (if not better) than most to celebrate the birth of Jesus. But that doesn't mean there wasn't originally a political purpose for christians to choose a date in line with that of other holidays.

So really, we're all taking an existing holiday and turning it into our own. What's the big deal?

I think everybody should celebrate what they want. There aren't any pine trees where jesus was born anyway, so a christmas tree is really just a formality, too. What difference does it make that the guy next door to you doesn't celebrate Christ and does celebrate Christmas? As true Christians, I would think you would be happy that your neighbors are sharing food, family and togetherness over the holidays rather than being embittered that they're not doing it YOUR way.

K
 

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killerformula said:
Well I think the point is that CHRISTmas wasn't originally a Christian holiday. It was adopted from previous pagan traditions. I'm not sure that's significant at all. Its as good a time (if not better) than most to celebrate the birth of Jesus. But that doesn't mean there wasn't originally a political purpose for christians to choose a date in line with that of other holidays.

So really, we're all taking an existing holiday and turning it into our own. What's the big deal?

I think everybody should celebrate what they want. There aren't any pine trees where jesus was born anyway, so a christmas tree is really just a formality, too. What difference does it make that the guy next door to you doesn't celebrate Christ and does celebrate Christmas? As true Christians, I would think you would be happy that your neighbors are sharing food, family and togetherness over the holidays rather than being embittered that they're not doing it YOUR way.

K
canigetan amen

Well it's all good until a Christmastian says happy holidays, then all hell breaks loose I guess.
 

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The ACLU will protect your religious rights if you are a terrorist.Isnt that special??? But they will strip yours away if you are American. The only time they back a Christian church is so that they get people to believe they are "level",they are by far the worst orginazation operating here. Merry Christmas.
 

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Re: Re: What Happened to Christmas?

crazygutgut said:
Edge you seem like a nice guy.
Thanks, I like to think so.

Okay, I'll admit it, I am bias. oldred asked a question "What has happened to CHRISTmas?" and I answered it based on my opinion and using sources that support my position. Simple as that. Just like you referenced a link that discussed early pagan influences on Christian customs, I'll bet most of us would use sources that support our position. Isn't that natural? But maybe you should lighten up on the capital letters with your response. It gives the appearance that you are defensive and angry, and for what reason?

Fact is most poles would support that one I referenced. I stated that the ACLU is at the forefront for expunging Christian customs and beliefs from the public arena. Is that not true, or did I fabricate that using bias sources? Just like the ACLU wants to take "Christ" out of Christmas and replace it with a "X", they are fighting to take God out of Thanksgiving. According to the ACLU, school children should not be taught that the Pilgrims were actually thanking God. At the risk of citing another bias source, you can read about it here.

Of course Hal Lindsey is bias. Fact is, I agree with most of what he says.

...(by the way I wouldnt call someones personal opinion an "article")... Why? Isn't an article a "writing"? Thesaurus.com cites the following synonyms for "article": (third one from the top) blurb, column, commentary, composition, discourse, editorial, essay, exposition, feature, item, paper, piece, scoop, spread, story, theme, think piece, treatise, write-up. Aren't those "opinions", true or false?

BTW - I agree what you said in the second paragraph of your first response to oldred.

Ed :)
 

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A lady said Happy Holidays to me today. I asked her to be specific. She cocked her head sideways like a dog does when you ask it if it wants a bone to chew on.

I asked her which holidays she was referring to. She said Christmas and New Years Day. I thanked her and said have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. She got a grin on her face like a dog that just got a bone to chew on.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

Where did she bury that bone? I'm hungry.

Larry
 

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Re: Re: Re: What Happened to Christmas?

edge said:
Why? Isn't an article a "writing"? Thesaurus.com cites the following synonyms for "article": (third one from the top) blurb, column, commentary, composition, discourse, editorial, essay, exposition, feature, item, paper, piece, scoop, spread, story, theme, think piece, treatise, write-up. Aren't those "opinions", true or false?
Edge, Are you on Limbaughs Staff?? ;-)
I note that you used the "thesarus" version of "article" and not the dictionary version...

"article"
A nonfictional literary composition that forms an independent part of a publication, as of a newspaper or magazine.

Not someones "testimony" on a webpage, be it an "editorial" webpage or not...

"opinion"
A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof


Now, I dont ever recall coming out in favor of the ACLU. I do agree with their principals that they "protect" which they list on their webpage.
* Your First Amendment rights-freedom of speech, association and assembly. Freedom of the press, and freedom of religion supported by the strict separation of church and state.
* Your right to equal protection under the law - equal treatment regardless of race, sex, religion or national origin.
* Your right to due process - fair treatment by the government whenever the loss of your liberty or property is at stake.
* Your right to privacy - freedom from unwarranted government intrusion into your personal and private affairs.

So I am not for the "generic-ification" of the US. The word god is on our money "so what"! the word god is in our "pledge of alllegence again "so what" ! Its there, its a part of history leave it be. I think the most IMPORTANT thing about being "AMERICAN" is our diversity, the representation of the US as a melting pot of "Many Races and Many Cultures." I have always agreed with the motto "live and let live" You are free to be WHO you want and WHAT you want. Our constitutuion guarantees that.

I dont want this country to be a mindless group of clones who cant say the word god, no more than I want us be forced to pray to the god the Goverment feels is the right one. I think there are "extremists" on both sides, For every card carryng ACLU member out there that wants to see the word "god" erased from everything, there is a "god fearing christian" that thinks the ten commandments should be displayed on city streets and the "our father" should be taught in public schools.

As an American I only want a couple things, I want my government both local and federal to not supprt ANY religion over another, and I want my ATM machines to be in english. Other than that I think I am more than fair.

There is an imbetween, middle ground as it were. But it requires "us" as American Citizens to respect others opinions, whether we agree or not. It also requires that our "goverment" not be concerned with forcing a particular view or set of morals. This is America, not Afghanistan. Just because the republicans won, and the "whitehouse" is christian, Does not mean the rest of Americans opinions dont matter, or that our rights are some how worth "less" than your rights, because you are the majority. It is that exact reason our founding fathers came here in the first place, so lets not forget that.
 

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Re: Re: Re: Re: What Happened to Christmas?

crazygutgut said:


Now, I dont ever recall coming out in favor of the ACLU. I do agree with their principals that they "protect" which they list on their webpage.
* Your First Amendment rights-freedom of speech, association and assembly. Freedom of the press, and freedom of religion supported by the strict separation of church and state.
* Your right to equal protection under the law - equal treatment regardless of race, sex, religion or national origin.
* Your right to due process - fair treatment by the government whenever the loss of your liberty or property is at stake.
* Your right to privacy - freedom from unwarranted government intrusion into your personal and private affairs.

Those principles are our rights. I see no need for the ACLU or any other leacherous organization like it.
So I am not for the "generic-ification" of the US. The word god is on our money "so what"! the word god is in our "pledge of alllegence again "so what" ! Its there, its a part of history leave it be. I think the most IMPORTANT thing about being "AMERICAN" is our diversity, the representation of the US as a melting pot of "Many Races and Many Cultures." I have always agreed with the motto "live and let live" You are free to be WHO you want and WHAT you want. Our constitutuion guarantees that.
The melting pot is a clear form of "generic-ification" itself.

I dont want this country to be a mindless group of clones who cant say the word god, no more than I want us be forced to pray to the god the Goverment feels is the right one. I think there are "extremists" on both sides, For every card carryng ACLU member out there that wants to see the word "god" erased from everything, there is a "god fearing christian" that thinks the ten commandments should be displayed on city streets and the "our father" should be taught in public schools.
I agree wholeheartedly.

As an American I only want a couple things, I want my government both local and federal to not supprt ANY religion over another, and I want my ATM machines to be in english. Other than that I think I am more than fair.

There is an imbetween, middle ground as it were. But it requires "us" as American Citizens to respect others opinions, whether we agree or not. It also requires that our "goverment" not be concerned with forcing a particular view or set of morals.
You are correct sir. However forced integration is just that. Forcing a set of morals upon the population without asking the population first.

This is America, not Afghanistan. Just because the republicans won, and the "whitehouse" is christian, Does not mean the rest of Americans opinions dont matter, or that our rights are some how worth "less" than your rights, because you are the majority. It is that exact reason our founding fathers came here in the first place, so lets not forget that.
Once again, I agree.

I don't mean to inflame you or anyone here but I think I must explain my comments.

The ACLU isn't really needed these days. People aren't in need of legal representation from the ACLU, they just want it. The only violations of civil liberties taking place are those perpetrated by the ACLU itself. That and several other organizations need to be disbanded, abolished or something. The only threat to civil liberty is the one they create the perception of in order to keep cushy jobs.

Ya can't really have a melting pot when people don't want to melt. Take a look around the cities and rural areas. You'll see what I mean if you aren't wearing politically correct blinders.

People, for the most part, don't want to be a part of any melting pot, no matter what the government says and tries to force us to do. There are a few MTV rejects that defy instinct and logic to be "progressively correct" but the majority of people tend to congregate around those that are like themselves.
What do you think makes us do that? Familiarity maybe.

Ask yourself, if you're white, if you'd really choose to move into the middle of a ghetto/barrio if you had another choice? Or the other way 'round if you're Brown or Black. It doesn't make you racist, it makes you human.

The government may force an entire neighborhood full of kids to go to a different school to maintain racial parity, notice I did not use the word equality, but it doesn't mean they'll be happy about it. Unhappy kids makes for difficult teaching and lesser education.
Don't believe me, ask a teacher. Better yet, ask your kids.

The media thinks they are doing us a favor by not using Merry Christmas or Happy New Year. They're just pissing most of us off, just like the government.

This thread is proof of it.

Larry
 

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MErry CHRIST mas and a Halleluyear. < not mispelled, I just coined this word by dropping the jah and adding year to Hallelujah. Me + Christ together sing HALLELUJAH to God in the highest


It has been mentioned several times but I can't find any reference in the constitution about separation of church and state. Would someone please show me where to look so that I can place a bookmark there.

Al
 
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