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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've been using 15w-40 diesel engine oil on my sbc since I built it, just over 23k miles on it now. I think I would do better with a 10w-30, or maybe even a 5w-30 for the winter months. On freezing mornings the starter really turns it over slow....

Should I get (and does anyone make) a 10w-30 diesel oil? Or should I get a regular oil and use an additive? Going 5w-30 would simplify my maintence, since all my other cars use it, but not sure if that's too thin for summer.

Thanks,
-Michael
 

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I'd personally go with the 5w-30 for winter and maybe a slightly higher for summer. It depends on the average temp where you're at. The thick oil in the winter is definitely not good. There's not much use is those additives after break-in though.
 

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Most all of the new car manufacturers ...Rice as well as American all seem to reccomend 5W30 for everything, year around, no matter where in the US you live.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
There's no worry about wiping the cam going to a regular oil? That has always been my main concern and the reason I continued with the diesel.

I think the owner's manual recommends 10w-30 or 40 for summer driving. My newer cars that use the 5w-30 both have oil coolers (F150 and an LT1 Impala).

Temps down here are pretty mile in winter, mostly never lower than 20s. Summer it's typicaly 90+, and I travel on the interstate with the a/c on daily. Think a 10w-30 would be best all year?
 

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Hammer and a torch
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Synthetic Motor Oil

Overview


Valvoline Synthetic Racing Oil is designed for racing application only. Its unique formulation contains premium synthetic base stocks and advanced additive technology to reduce internal friction and help enhance horsepower output. Available at NAPA.
Designed for high-performance racing engines
Proven to provide more horsepower than the most widely used engine oils in grassroots racing
Helps increase horsepower through advanced friction modifiers balanced with reduced detergent levels
Contains increased amounts of zinc for extra engine protection
Not for use in wet clutch applications


Link to it

Sizes and Grades

Name 20W-50 Motor Oil
Size Quart
Part VV855
UPC 74310-00855

Name 5W-30 Motor Oil
Size Quart
Part VV853
UPC 74310-00853

Name 10W-30 Motor Oil
Size Quart
Part VV854
UPC 74310-00854
 

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Henry Highrise said:
Most all of the new car manufacturers ...Rice as well as American all seem to reccomend 5W30 for everything, year around, no matter where in the US you live.
I think the stuff past 2002 is mostly using 5w20, even the big ford V8's.

Wouldn't recommend that in an old chevy though!

I use 5w30 in winter, 10w30 in the summer in old motors-

K
 

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There are millions of pushrod cars roaming the earth with a full set of cam lobes and the oil they were designed to run. Cam lobes usually die through improper break in or too much valve spring. Don't let it idle cold and use the thinnest winter oil you can achieve good oil pressure and consumption with. The lobes/lifters are only splashed by the crank so keep it full and off idle.
 

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IMO (as I wish to start no fights here)

  • 10W-30 is available in ROTELLA (Shell is removing zinc from ROTELLA but has a substitute product-check API classification on any engine oil)

  • The recent use of thinner oils is mainly for OHC applications.

  • Racing oils do not have detergent/dispersent packages for continued street use.

  • Zinc was removed from engine oils as there is less need with OEM roller engines and improved metalurgy. Older engines (especially flat tappet cams) need the zinc package.

  • Rule of thumb for older engines- 10W-30 for normal year round operation unless clearances call for a heavier oil (10W-40) during warm months.

  • If you think about it, 15W-40 is a very heavy oil for cold start-up (and cold start-up is taking more factors into consideration than outside ambient temperature.

  • There is no one-fits-all engine oil. This is why so many products are offered.


From- -eTRUCKER NEWS-

New Products

Shell Rotella T meets CJ-4 specs

By Sean Kelley

Shell Lubricants announced June 21 that a re-formulated Rotella T motor oil will meets all of the specification criteria for the new API CJ-4 service category for diesel motor oil.

The company will make the new oil, designed to work with 2007 on-highway engines, available in bulk and drums July 1 and by quart, gallon or pail Oct. 15. New lower-emission diesel engines will require an engine oil with different characteristics than is currently available. The new formulation is backwards compatible with pre-2007 engines and can be mixed with CI-4 oils currently on the market.

CJ-4 oils must meet more stringent requirements than previous oil; they must be able to handle higher engine temperatures and higher levels of soot while using new detergent packages that rely on less phosphorus, sulfated ash and sulfur, says Dan Arcy, technical marketing manager for Shell Lubricants. CJ-4 oils also helps maximize the durability of Diesel Particulate Filters, Arcy says. Engine OEMs are deploying DPFs to trap emission particles.

The new Rotella T motor oil has also met the specification requirements for Caterpillar ECF-3 and Detroit Diesel 93K218 and has gained Cummins CES 20081, Mack EO-O Premium Plus 2007 and Volvo VDS-4 approvals.

Shell will continue to make its API CI-4 Plus Shell Rotella T motor oils available in bulk and drums beyond the introduction of the new CJ-4 formula to meet customer demand. For large fleets, Shell will also market Rimula Super, which also meets the CJ-4 standard.

-SHELL LUBRICANTS USA-

-TECH ARTICLE MUST READ-

Excerpt From VALVOLINE RACING OIL Advertisement

Valvoline Conventional Racing Oil is designed for racing application only. Its unique formulation contains premium mineral base stocks and advanced additive technology to reduce internal friction and help enhance horsepower output. Available at NAPA.

  • Designed for high-performance racing engines
  • Proven to provide more horsepower than the most widely used engine oils in grassroots racing
  • Helps increase horsepower through advanced friction modifiers balanced with reduced detergent levels
  • Contains increased amounts of zinc for extra engine protection
  • Not for use in wet clutch applications


I assume ( :rolleyes: ) that there is a general consensus that synthetics are not to be used for break-in and that they also do not contain zinc packages for older engine technology.

Your mileage may vary-
 

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Fleet Farm has 10w30 deisel oil in their own house brand. Thats what Ive been using ever since this biz came to light about a year or so ago. Its 6 bux a gallon. The rottela that they carry only comes in the 15w40 and that stuff is 8 bux a gallon.
 

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Jimmy Geske said:
Fleet Farm has 10w30 deisel oil in their own house brand. Thats what Ive been using ever since this biz came to light about a year or so ago. Its 6 bux a gallon. The rottela that they carry only comes in the 15w40 and that stuff is 8 bux a gallon.
Have you checked their MSDS? Just because the jug reads Diesel Oil does not make it the product you are looking for.

As an example, SHELL readily lists the zinc package on their ROTELLA products, while not giving needed information on their PENNZOIL HD Series.
 

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No I havent :( , I just got the word "deisel" stuck in my head and Ive been buying that stuff since only because its 10w30 and the other brands they sell are the 15w40. Fleet also sells regular non-deisel oil also so it makes me wonder what the other differences might be between deisel and non-deisel oil. Ive got three sbc's that I built about 10+ years ago and I only in the past year started using the deisel oil because of the hotrod and carcraft articles. I will soon be putting a new (smaller) cam in one of them and Im planning on using the breakin additive in addition to the cam lube and deisel oil. I have installed 5 cams in my own time and so far so good but I did have a buddy round a lobe on one when he swapped a cam in an otherwise stock engine but his didnt show up for a few years. Now ya got me all nervous, other than race oil, is there any "one" brand and type of deisel oil that is reasonably priced that has a good amount of zinc that anyone knows of?
 

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Diesel oils are made for higher pressure environments, so if they don't have zinc they will have a substitue as does the newer formula Rotella. Therefore it should be safe to assume that the diesel oils have a higher degree of protection than gasoline engine oils.

The key is the API certification number. Manufacturers don't have to meet specs if they don't want to, they just can't put the spec rating on their product if they don't. Some of the synthetics and small producers don't worry about the specifications. Using a non rated oil will void your warranty though. That's why most companies follow the rating specs and procedures. Read the Rotella article in the previous post for the classification numbers you're looking for. If the numbers are the same as the Rotella (one set of numbers -- many oils meet more than one classification) it should be fine.

The main problem is with break-in of the cam. Once you have a few miles on the engine regular oil should be fine. Crane and the OEMs say that the first oil shold be used for break-in, after that you should be fine with standard oil. Most builders I've talked to use (or plan to use) the break-in supplement in the first oil, change at 100-200 miles, then run it in the next fill and change at 800-1000 miles. After that use regular oil. The supplements aren't necessary after the cam is broke in. Those first few hundred miles are the critical ones.
 

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aka Duke of URL
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At this time, the only oil I know that is formulated correctly is ROTELLA T, and that formulation is changing. Racing oil has the zinc but not detergents/dispersents. I would imagine it would be OK for break-in, but not for street driving.

The advantage of the two above examples is that the zinc package is blended into the engine oil, and it readily dispersed throughout the oil ready for immediate use. If you throw a can of additive into regular motor oil, it has to cycle a few times to become somewhat blended I would think. How much damage is done before it becomes fully mixed?

I would look at the address of the manufacturere of your engine oil and see if you can find a MSDS sheet on it to see if they list the zinc percentage. Usually, brand oils such as these are supplied by a major refiner. MOTORCRAFT is actually CONOCO for instance.
 

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From -Motor Oil Myths and Facts-

Using motor oil that meets all automobile manufacturers’ warranty requirements is a key factor in developing repeat customers and safeguarding against unhappy customers with damaged engines. With all the changes in engine designs and oil formulations, determining which engine warranty requirements a given oil meets can be a frustrating experience.

To help simplify the process, the American Petroleum Institute (API), the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE), and the American Society for Testing and Materials (ASTM) cooperate to determine engine oil performance needs, test requirements, and how to put this information into a consumer-friendly format. This format is called the API Engine Service Classification System and Guide to Crankcase Oil Selection. This guide establishes common designations used by automobile manufacturers in their owner’s manuals and by oil marketers on their containers and in their literature.By comparing the API classification of the oil recommended in an owner’s manual to the API classifications of various oils, you can quickly and easily determine which oils meet your vehicle’s minimum requirements.

The API engine oil classification system is divided into two major categories. The “S” category designates oils for gasoline passenger car engines, and the “C” category designates oils for diesel-powered commercial truck engines. The “S” series is composed of SA, SB, SC, SD, SE, SF, SG, SH, SJ and SL. SL oils provide higher levels of performance than all the other “S” oils. API Categories SA through SH are obsolete, and oils labeled SL can be used in their place.

For modern vehicles, the ILSAC Certification Mark, known as the “Starburst,” was introduced. ILSA- certified motor oils must meet the latest engine protection requirements of API, and must also pass certain fuel saving requirements. The starburst was defined by an organization of American and Japanese automakers – the International Lubricants Standardization and Approval Committee (ILSAC). The look of the Starburst was jointly developed by the motor oil and automobile industries in an effort to make it easier for the consumer to identify motor oils that meet the minimum performance requirements deemed necessary the automakers.

Due to the fact that the ILSAC requirements include a fuel economy requirement, the ILSAC Starburst symbol will typically be found only on lighter viscosity grades of motor oil such as SAE 5W-20, SAE 5W-30 or SAE 10W-30. These viscosity grades are generally preferred for use in cars made by General Motors, Chrysler, and Ford. These grades are also favored by the Japanese automakers.
-API Service Quality Classifications-
 

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OK - now that I've read this thread now what ??? My current project has a SB Ford 5.0 crate motor complete with an -E303 roller camshaft, Crane 1.7 rockers and Crane spring kit 44308-1(118#seat/375#open) and has not yet been run. Do I run Motorcraft oil ( MC 5W-30 is in it waiting the first start) and add an additive high in zinc - change it in a few miles to 10W-30/40 along with another bottle of additive? While I'm not too concerned with cam lobe wear with a steel camshaft, I still want to minimize other internal wear. I've read several other write ups but still am not warm and fuzzy with today's 'environmentally friendly' oil offerings. :sweat:

Here is a good site for a lot of MSDS sheets (MC 5W-20 oil has or had in 2005 somewhere between 1 and 5% of a zinc compound)


http://www.topanga.com/Topanga/MSDS.htm

Dave
 

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Here is a virgin analysis of an additive called CD2. If you looking for zinc..
This stuff has it.


CD-2 Street Legal High Performance Oil Boost
#474725 - 05/18/06 04:00 PM Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply
Here is the data from a fresh sample of the SLOB in the pink bottle:

Parameter: VOA Data (Manufacturer's data)

Zinc: 4898 ppm (4700)
Phosphorus: 4921 ppm (4300)
Calcium: 4279 ppm (7800)
Moly: 0 ppm (0)
Vis @100C: 29.5 cSt (28)

The lab report also showed 13 ppm magnesium, 11 ppm silicon, 5 ppm sodium, and 3 ppm iron.

I also read a Virgin oil analysis of Rotella T from mid year of 2006. It showed over 1300 ppm of zinc.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Thanks to everyone for all this great information!

I'm glad to know that if my cam survived breakin that it should be good to go. I will go ahead and change to a lighter weight regular oil now that it's done breaking in.

I did take another look in my GM manual, it looks like 10w-30 is a very good choice for all-year use. This old oil chart also shows 20w-30/40 and 30w for summer use, which is probably why I didn't think anything of the 15w-40... but definitely too thick for temps below 30. This chart also shows 5w-30/20, and although the 5w30 is good up to 60 degree ambient, that's probably pushing it a little thin for the warm temps down here. Also has a note not to run 5w20 for any continuous high speed driving (I guess that means over 55 mph? :) )
 
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