[Adam854]

Hello everyone, I would like to get some input on this oil. I am replacing the cam on my sbc 350, I am using a flat tappet xe268 with Comp DLC lifters. I was pretty confident with my setup and with my oil until I read this thread

Test Data on 9 Different Break-In Oils - CorvetteForum - Chevrolet Corvette Forum Discussion

In this thread a guy tested a bunch of different oils and the Driven BR oil got last place for wear protection. I am now wondering if I should send this oil back and use VR1 for break in? What do you guys think, have you had successful cam break-ins with Driven oil?

 

[johnsongrass1]

Its the internet where any body with a keyboard gets to know it all.
Try looking up some stuff on 540RAT.....eye opening

 

[2001Blazer4x4]

I would worry more about what valve springs you are running. Heads set up with springs for a roller cam will surely eat a flat tappet cam in short order. I think this happens a lot more than people admit to.

An XE268 does not need killer valve springs. If you haven't bought them yet, do yourself a favor and go with lightweight valve train (valves/springs/retainers/rockers/pushrods/etc. Then you don't need nearly the spring pressure to keep things in check and you can lighten the springs up to help avoid wear.

I'm sure the Driven product is just fine. Personally I like the Lucas 30W break in oil because it is cheap and I change it out after a short time. Then I put in what I consider to be the good stuff. Brad Penn 10W30. (but of course 540RAT doesn't like it). Funny that a "mechanical engineer" doesn't seem to consider the possibility of poorly machined lifters and other things regarding adverse wear. Like johnsongrass1 says - anyone with a keyboard can be an expert. I am not - but I never had a flat tappet cam failure either.

 

[lmsport]

Oil is magic.

 

[BogiesAnnex1]

I wish BR30 was a 10W30 rather than a 5W30 otherwise it’s fine. Really in the big picture how it flows at 0 degrees C or 32 degrees F there isn’t all that much difference between 5W and 30W the big drop to thinner is 0W oils while the big increase in thicker hits at 15W. At 100 degrees C or 212 F most common automotive mulitweight oils ending at 30 flow at the same rate. What looks different between the cold to hot viscosity flow rates is the temperature to flow curve

Just to be sure we’re on common ground I‘m talking oils that are rated like 0W-30, 5W-30, 10W-30, 15W-30. At the high temp you get a flow change with that -xx spend number but the number preceding the W stays the same.

Bogie

 

[Adam854]

I would worry more about what valve springs you are running. Heads set up with springs for a roller cam will surely eat a flat tappet cam in short order. I think this happens a lot more than people admit to.

Yeah I have heard that spring pressure can be a big factor. I will be using using dart 180 shp heads, seat pressure is #120 and open is #280. It’s a little close but I figure with the dlc lifters it should be alright.

 

[BogiesAnnex1]

DLC wears like anything else, an engine builder never assumes “that everything should be alright”.

Murphy’s Law is always running in the background.

Definition of MURPHY'S LAW

Bogie

 

[Adam854]

DLC wears like anything else, an engine builder never assumes “that everything should be alright”.

Murphy’s Law is always running in the background.

Definition of MURPHY'S LAW

Bogie

I see your point, that is true. Do you think that those spring pressures will be an issue?

 

[2001Blazer4x4]

I see your point, that is true. Do you think that those spring pressures will be an issue?

Comp Cams specs springs for this cam as their P/N 981-16. These have 105 at the installed height of 1.7. In the flat tappet cam world, that is quite a bit less pressure than the 120 you are planning to subject your cam and lifters to. Probably you'll be just fine if you do a proper breakin, but if you are worried....

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

 

[BogiesAnnex1]

These are not huge as these things can go but at the same time there’s good reason not to use more than spring than needed. For street performance I lean toward beehives. They do more work with less pressure as they naturally resist developing harmonics which with a barrel spring requires some combination of more pressure with a flat wound internal damper and or internal counter wound spring to add both more pressure and damping. A huge part of the valve spring’s effort is just keeping its own mass under control let alone the rest of the valve train. But beehives are a little tricky in that they are metric so to run with a Chevy 11/32nd stem you need to use an adapter retainer that fits the metric end of the spring and accepts 11/32nd locks. To this end the Comp 787-16 or these from Alex’s, Diablo and others need to be used.

Bogie

 

[johnsongrass1]

Take out the inner springs OR use 1:3 rockers and any any good brand of oil. Assuming the thing was machined right to begin with, it'll be fine. I don't do anything crazy and have only lost 1 cam, a cheap one, in the last 20 years and 40 something flat tappets

 

[lmsport]

The only flat tappet cams I have ever had fail were from Comp. I stopped using them 20 years ago for that reason.

 

[Adam854]

Take out the inner springs OR use 1:3 rockers and any any good brand of oil.

My heads don’t even have inner springs, just a dampener spring which I wouldn’t think would make much difference?

The only flat tappet cams I have ever had fail were from Comp. I stopped using them 20 years ago for that reason.

Not very reassuring 😬

 

[1979Malibu]

Hello everyone, I would like to get some input on this oil. I am replacing the cam on my sbc 350, I am using a flat tappet xe268 with Comp DLC lifters. I was pretty confident with my setup and with my oil until I read this thread

Test Data on 9 Different Break-In Oils - CorvetteForum - Chevrolet Corvette Forum Discussion

In this thread a guy tested a bunch of different oils and the Driven BR oil got last place for wear protection. I am now wondering if I should send this oil back and use VR1 for break in? What do you guys think, have you had successful cam break-ins with Driven oil?

I've used Driven and the Summit Racing brand break in oils with perfect results.

What the testing didn't account for is the assembly lube being used. The molybdenum high pressure lube applied to your flat tappet cam and lifters is providing the benefit where the pressure is the highest...right where the cam and lifter meet. The PSI rating of those lubricants are way off the top of the scale in the article. There was no mention of molybdenum binding with the surface metals either. The assembly lube would certainly change the PPM (parts per million) results of the oil soon after start up. We could go on.

The article was a good read. I just don't think it tells the whole story.

 

[2001Blazer4x4]

My heads don’t even have inner springs, just a dampener spring which I wouldn’t think would make much difference?


Not very reassuring 😬

Removing dampener won't make any difference. If you are worried, you might consider buying a set of cheapie stock pressure springs for the break in and then switch over to the 120# seat springs afterwards (they will be fine later). No more effort than doing the inner spring thing.

If anything is wrong with the machining of the cam or lifters - yes, that could cause a cam failure - presumably because the lifter doesn't spin and that is what truly means death to a flat tappet cam. So why not do as ericnova72 suggests and check for lifter rotation after inserting just the cam and lifters. Check to make sure the lifters can turn free in their bores, mark them with a marker, and if they all rotate under their own weight when the cam is turned - then the crown on lifter/taper on the cam lobe are machined correctly enough to get the job done.

In any case do use a good cam assembly grease/paste and beak in oil. Many are out there and which one is really one of those personal preference things! Personally I like Driven Engine Assembly Lube for the cam/lifters and Lucas 30W for the break in oil. Then Brad Penn 10W30 for the long run. If your engine will be sitting for much time before firing, I suggest the paste or gel type grease for the cam assembly (it doesn't drip off).

 

[Adam854]

If anything is wrong with the machining of the cam or lifters - yes, that could cause a cam failure - presumably because the lifter doesn't spin and that is what truly means death to a flat tappet cam. So why not do as ericnova72 suggests and check for lifter rotation after inserting just the cam and lifters. Check to make sure the lifters can turn free in their bores, mark them with a marker, and if they all rotate under their own weight when the cam is turned - then the crown on lifter/taper on the cam lobe are machined correctly enough to get the job done.

I will definitely do this. I was thinking the the lifters would have to have pressure from the valvetrain to spin, but if they don't I will do that this evening since I don't yet have the heads on. If a few of them don't spin, do I just try swapping them around until they all do?

I used isky rev lube (which is a moly grease) on the cam lobes and lifter faces, for the cam bearings I used the comp cams assembly lube, and for the sides of the lifters I only used br30.

 

[BogiesAnnex1]

I will definitely do this. I was thinking the the lifters would have to have pressure from the valvetrain to spin, but if they don't I will do that this evening since I don't yet have the heads on. If a few of them don't spin, do I just try swapping them around until they all do?

I used isky rev lube (which is a moly grease) on the cam lobes and lifter faces, for the cam bearings I used the comp cams assembly lube, and for the sides of the lifters I only used br30.

The lifters spin by design of the cam lobes which have a slight angle that is higher toward the back of the engine while the lifters have a slightly convex face. This in the SBC does two things, it causes the lifter to rotate in its bore so the wear surface isn’t always in the same spot and this angular interplay pushes the cam rearward which in turn keeps the timing gear’s thrust face against that of the block to control cam thrust moments that want to shake it fore and aft.

Isky Rev lube is good stuff on flat tappet cams. Rub it into the lobes and lifter faces, don’t just glob it on and hope for the best.

Bogie

 

[Adam854]

Just an update, I tested for lifter spin. I held the lifters down a little bit with a pushrod just to keep them on their lobes, while I did this I turned the camshaft. They all spun, some would spin a lot and some just a little so I swapped them around until I got all of them to spin real good.
Thanks everyone for all the help; I have learned, and am continuing to learn a ton from this forum.

 

[2001Blazer4x4]

If you want any additional insurance against initial wear, install a set of Melling VS-2229 springs for the break-in. 16 of them for total of $28.16 + ship + tax at Rock Auto. 1.250" diameter, 0.5" coil bind, 1.700" install height, 83# seat pressure, 197# open to 1.270". Then switch back to the 120# seat springs later. Just keep it under 5000 rpm until then.
More Information for MELLING VS2229

 

[Ratrod61]

Hello everyone, I would like to get some input on this oil. I am replacing the cam on my sbc 350, I am using a flat tappet xe268 with Comp DLC lifters. I was pretty confident with my setup and with my oil until I read this thread Test Data on 9 Different Break-In Oils - CorvetteForum - Chevrolet Corvette Forum Discussion In this thread a guy tested a bunch of different oils and the Driven BR oil got last place for wear protection. I am now wondering if I should send this oil back and use VR1 for break in? What do you guys think, have you had successful cam break-ins with Driven oil?

I would talk to ur local engine shops and follow what they tell u.