Dual Plane or Single?

8085 Views 23 Replies 9 Participants Last post by cobalt327, Oct 29, 2009

majorownage

Discussion Starter · Oct 28, 2009

Ok guys I'm throwing out the age old question:

Dual or single plane? (Edelbrock RPM air gap vs. Torker???)

351 cleveland, bored .020 over 355 CI

I want to spin it up to 6750rpm occasionally

If i go with the RPM, i'll port match the intake, and if needed stick a 1 inch spacer on

I have a hydraulic roller
Intake @Cam 359 @Valve 621
Exhaust @ Cam 365 @Valve 631

I can change my cam out... no biggie

oh and 11.5:1 comp. I'm running a bigger cam to support more compression.

forgot to say!!! My heads are the 4v 300cmf'ish with .6xxx lift

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techinspector1

· #2 · Oct 28, 2009

Straight from Edelbrock:

PERFORMER RPM™ MANIFOLDS (1500 to 6500 rpm)
Performer RPMs are dual-plane, high-rise intakes with 180° firing order to produce incredible top-end horsepower while retaining good throttle response. Their larger plenums and runners match the free-flowing exhaust, high-lift cams and other modifications of a high output engine. They are intended for high-performance street or competition engines that run up to 6500 rpm. They are not for emissions equipped engines. Edelbrock's Performer RPM gives you the ultimate in street high-performance.

TORKER II® MANIFOLDS (2500 to 6500 rpm)
These single-plane, low-rise intakes work well for high-rpm, high-performance street applications. Ideal for applications where hood clearance is limited, they produce gains in top-end horsepower with adequate throttle response. Not intended for mileage or emissions applications, they are only for high-performance vehicles.

Notice the difference in verbage concerning throttle response:
RPM: good throttle response.
TORQUER: adequate throttle response.

This probably won't carry much weight, but on every DynoSim I've run, the RPM/Weiand Stealth makes more hp and torque from 2000 through 6000 than any other design. Above 6000, the single plane takes over.

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ericnova72

· #3 · Oct 28, 2009

The Cleveland really likes to breathe at higher rpms due to the big intake port and valve, you might consider looking at a Victor type manifold over the Torker or Air-Gap unless it needs to retain good torque below 3200 rpm.

If you do use the dual plane, make sure you put a big (850+ cfm) carb on it.

Jim Rockford

· #4 · Oct 28, 2009

guessing you are not gonna drive it on the street?

ap72

· #5 · Oct 28, 2009

forget both of them, you need a good single plan with adequate height (where the torker comes up short). You have most of a race engine put together there so you need a semi-race intake.

RustoRod

· #6 · Oct 28, 2009

Is 6,750 rpm acheivable with a hydraulic roller cam in a Cleveland engine ? If not I would use the dual plane.

majorownage

Discussion Starter · #7 · Oct 28, 2009

X-CELerator Intake Manifold

I probably will be buying this intake:
X-CELerator Intake Manifold

I can't run a Victor Intake cuz they don't make them for a 4V Cleveland

with a 2800 converter, and 4.00 gears, this is definatly streetable!

4200 rpms @ 75 mph

majorownage

Discussion Starter · #8 · Oct 28, 2009

RustoRod said:
Is 6,750 rpm acheivable with a hydraulic roller cam in a Cleveland engine ? If not I would use the dual plane.

You kidding me? Clevelands are the best for high rpm use.

ap72

· #9 · Oct 28, 2009

looks like you need more stall too, but that's another topic.

majorownage

Discussion Starter · #10 · Oct 28, 2009

ap72 said:
looks like you need more stall too, but that's another topic.

2800 converter is just fine, at least what the cam specs said.

techinspector1

· #11 · Oct 28, 2009

majorownage said:
You kidding me? Clevelands are the best for high rpm use.

Clevelands may be, but hydraulic roller lifters may not be. Most of them, due to the weight involved, will begin leaving the lobe profile and skipping at around 6200 if you don't have a rev kit installed.

ap72

· #12 · Oct 28, 2009

majorownage said:
2800 converter is just fine, at least what the cam specs said.

.621" lift with a hyd. roller cam will require a good amount of duration. What duration are you running?

majorownage

Discussion Starter · #13 · Oct 28, 2009

techinspector1 said:
Clevelands may be, but hydraulic roller lifters may not be. Most of them, due to the weight involved, will begin leaving the lobe profile and skipping at around 6200 if you don't have a rev kit installed.

Hydraulic Roller lifters are good up to 7k right? With Beehive springs of course.

onebadmerc

· #14 · Oct 29, 2009

If you have a choice between the Torker and Xcellerator choose the Torker. If you are going to spin your Cleveland above 6000rpm I hope you have done oil mods to this engine.

ericnova72

· #15 · Oct 29, 2009

Majorownage, is this your first Cleveland build?? Have you worked with hydraulic rollers before or are you just going by what you've read?? Seems like you are a little off target in some areas?

curtis73

· #16 · Oct 29, 2009

My personal take... The torker is old technology and has very little application except to look good and be nostalgic. It kills low end torque and doesn't excel at high RPMs either. A good dual plane RPM-type intake will walk all over a torker - both in low end torque, and still make the same or more top end hp.

As far as I'm concerned, the torker isn't even a choice. You have a low rise dual for mild engines, a high-rise dual for hotter street/strip, and anything that can't be handled by those two needs a victor. The torker doesn't really shine at anything compared to more modern manifold technology.

ericnova72

· #17 · Oct 29, 2009

curtis73 said:
My personal take... The torker is old technology and has very little application except to look good and be nostalgic. It kills low end torque and doesn't excel at high RPMs either. A good dual plane RPM-type intake will walk all over a torker - both in low end torque, and still make the same or more top end hp.

As far as I'm concerned, the torker isn't even a choice. You have a low rise dual for mild engines, a high-rise dual for hotter street/strip, and anything that can't be handled by those two needs a victor. The torker doesn't really shine at anything compared to more modern manifold technology.

Agree. Torker's and Torker II's, no matter what engine they are for - Ford, GM's, or Mopar, should be hunted down and re-smelted into something worthwhile :evil: .

majorownage

Discussion Starter · #18 · Oct 29, 2009

I've done alotta reading, talked to different speed shops, etc.

I this crane cam w/ kit
http://www.cranecams.com/?show=brow...4.6-5.4 L&partNumber=379631&partType=camshaft

.597 intake lift @ 290
.607 ex lift @ 294

I have 4V closed cleveland heads, 2800 converter, upgraded oil pump, and the fix for the "so called" oil problem on the Cleveland. oh yea mechanical 850 cfm carb

all stock lower end (clevelands are tough)

Just what intake?
Im thinking I'll just port match the Weiand X–CELerator Intake Manifold Wud yall think?

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majorownage

Discussion Starter · #19 · Oct 29, 2009

ericnova72 said:
Agree. Torker's and Torker II's, no matter what engine they are for - Ford, GM's, or Mopar, should be hunted down and re-smelted into something worthwhile :evil: .

The only reason I'm considering a Torker is because its the only single plane intake Edelbrock makes for the Cleveland!

Clevelands I believe are the most over looked motor evar!

ericnova72

· #20 · Oct 29, 2009

CHI cylinder heads sells a large single plane of the Victor type for Clevelands.

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