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Hey guys, I'm building a turbocharged 454. anybody know what a good intake for it will be? It's technically a street/strip kind of car, but I really just floor it every chance I get. My friends are telling me to get an edelbrock performer rpm. What do you guys think?
 

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If hood clearance is a prime consideration, use the low single plane Torker II.

With forced induction, you don't need the dual plane design to promote low rpm torque like on a naturally aspirated application...the turbo is going to stuff the intake fuller under pressure, it doesn't need a long runner to help it.

You mentioned hood clearance as a priority in another thread. The Torker II is 1.400" shorter than the Performer RPM.
 

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When you’re huffing and puffing an engine the intake is not so critical because you can adjust the pressure you want for the power you want.

When mother nature is supplying the air you need a better manifold because it is what it is, there is no other pressure adjustment to be made to make up for less than ideal manifold design.

Bogie
 

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Not a turbo expert by any means, but it depends on what you want the torque curve to look like. The torque curve will most likely look exactly like the naturally aspirated curve, just higher depending on the amount of boost you're running. Put another way, boost just gives you more of what you already have.

If you want a lot more low end torque, run the dual plane. If you want to max out the high end HP, run the single plane. As said though, you will have monster torque everywhere with a 454 turbo. Probably won't matter one bit.

Here are some dyno tests videos to study. They deal mostly with LS engines, but the info will transfer to any motor and some of it is about cams, but the principle is the same :



 

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Hey guys, I'm building a turbocharged 454. anybody know what a good intake for it will be? It's technically a street/strip kind of car, but I really just floor it every chance I get. My friends are telling me to get an edelbrock performer rpm. What do you guys think?
Absolutely agree with your friends if the motor was naturally aspirated (no turbo, no blower), but when you hang a lung on the motor, all you need is a sheet metal box of some kind to distribute the compressed mixture to all the cylinders. The motor will no longer be dependent on atmospheric pressure to fill the cylinders.

A little history to wow your buddies with......the Edelbrock Performer RPM, along with the Holley 300-36 and Weiand Stealth were aftermarket manifolds, manufactured in aluminum by the Winters Foundry for Chevrolet Motor Division and made for the Chevrolet 302 Z-28 motor. They worked so well that the aftermarket manifold manufacturers copied the Chevrolet design and sold a passel of them. While the Holley and the Weiand offerings dropped by the wayside after several years, the Edelbrock design is still making money. The Edelbrock team has dropped the ball in the last several years by touting the Air Gap model to be used on the street. This is not a street manifold, it is a race manifold. The design is too cold on the street and will cause misfiring and rough running in cool or cold weather. If you want the best naturally aspirated intake manifold for a Gen I small block Chevy, look no further than the standard Performer RPM....:thumbup:
 

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Well, for what it's worth, my air gap on my 383 works just fine no matter what the weather is. Not once had any stumbling, etc.
 

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Well, for what it's worth, my air gap on my 383 works just fine no matter what the weather is. Not once had any stumbling, etc.
I'm pleased for you, but there are other members on this board who have told me that they have had problems, so I am simply passing on the information as I have been told it.

Now that you have opened the can, I will have to tell the story as I see it.....
In the history of the Gen I small block Chevrolet motor, from 1955 and later, nobody that I know of has successfully produced an intake manifold of the Air Gap design that worked well on the street. A street motor is modulated, which means that it has to be changed from low rpm's to mid-range rpms, back to idle, then to low range, mid-range maybe high-range, then back to mid range. In other words, it is not a single range intake manifold like one that would be used at the drag strip, where you basically have idle and full throttle, with nothing in between....no modulation at all. Other than reading the plugs after every pass, you would not be aware of any mis-firing from a course fuel-air mixture.

And then, there is the humidity of the air to be reckoned with. Maybe the air where the fellows who are complaining about this manifold is way too wet or way too dry or somewhere in the middle that promotes misfiring of the motor due to rich/lean/rich/lean conditions. All I know is, there is a problem with this intake in cool or cold weather in certain places in these United States with no heat in the manifold to help homogenize the large clumps of fuel into a combustible mixture.

Hot Rod Magazine's testing of the intake on the dynamometer says it makes "a little bit more power". What is a little bit? 1 horsepower......3 horsepower? Whatever it is, it's not worth the downside of not mixing the air and fuel into a correct mixture throughout the rpm range, while modulating the throttle. Not for me anyway. Fellows who support the purchasing of an Air Gap have their money invested in it, whether or not it was an intelligent purchase, so human nature tells us that some of those who have purchased these manifolds will defend their purchase, sometimes vigorously, in an attempt to prevent looking silly.

.
 

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Correction for post 5 above.....should read.....
A little history to wow your buddies with......the Edelbrock Performer RPM, along with the Holley 300-36 and Weiand Stealth were aftermarket manifolds, manufactured as copies of the aluminum intake manifold which was cast in aluminum by the Winters Foundry for Chevrolet Motor Division and made for the Chevrolet 302 Z-28 motor in 1967. The manifold worked so well that the aftermarket manifold manufacturers copied the Chevrolet design and sold a passel of them to hot rodders.
 

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Whatever. Would you agree that proper carb tuning might have anything to do with "smooth operation"? If anybody substitutes "plug reading" for an O2 sensor/gauge to figure out what to do with their carb is just one step above doing nothing. Would you agree that "smooth operation" is probably 90% attributable to proper carb adjustment/tuning? I wonder, is a cooler fuel/air charge likely to increase performance? That happens at WOT, by the way, just like a racing engine.

So reading between the lines you seem to believe that anyone who says that they have zero performance problems with an air gap is lying or otherwise trying to cover up their bad decisions and waste of money and a stupid person. Pretty insulting.

Why don't performance heads have a heat riser port to the intake manifold? Seems then that a non-air gap would have to depend on absorbing all the heat required to allow smooth operation from its belly. With huge volumes of air/gas mixtures flowing through the ports, do really believe that the belly of the intake passes enough heat energy to the mixture to make any difference at all?

It's an old wives tale....or opinions from those who don't have sense enough to tune their carb. Some folks always complain about anything that they don't understand, and peg their reasoning on something else.

Next winter on a very cold day I will post an unedited video proving what I am saying. I won't forget.
 

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Correction for post 5 above.....should read.....
A little history to wow your buddies with......the Edelbrock Performer RPM, along with the Holley 300-36 and Weiand Stealth were aftermarket manifolds, manufactured as copies of the aluminum intake manifold which was cast in aluminum by the Winters Foundry for Chevrolet Motor Division and made for the Chevrolet 302 Z-28 motor in 1967. The manifold worked so well that the aftermarket manifold manufacturers copied the Chevrolet design and sold a passel of them to hot rodders.
For a lot of years the Holley 300-36 was pretty much an exact copy....makes sense, since they also helped GM with the metering configuration of the Holley OEM carbs used with that manifold on the L79, Z28, and LT-1..

The Weiand and Edelbrock were just similar configuration with small differences....Edelbrock C3B, C3BX, and C4B were also known for being really good back in their day..

The modern versions since the early/mid 1990's are better than the old stuff, once they got a Computerized Fluid Dynamics analysis involved they found out where improvements could be made without a bunch of hand porting trial and error.

For what it's worth, I never had any problem running Victor Jr, Holley Strip Dominator, Pro Products Hurricane, and Weiand Team G single planes on the street, and those are all air gap too. I've got nothing against ther RPM Air-Gap, but the regular heated RPM will probably have better fuel mileage and will definately warm up a little faster.
 

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Whatever. Would you agree that proper carb tuning might have anything to do with "smooth operation"? If anybody substitutes "plug reading" for an O2 sensor/gauge to figure out what to do with their carb is just one step above doing nothing. Would you agree that "smooth operation" is probably 90% attributable to proper carb adjustment/tuning? I wonder, is a cooler fuel/air charge likely to increase performance? That happens at WOT, by the way, just like a racing engine.

So reading between the lines you seem to believe that anyone who says that they have zero performance problems with an air gap is lying or otherwise trying to cover up their bad decisions and waste of money and a stupid person. Pretty insulting.

Why don't performance heads have a heat riser port to the intake manifold? Seems then that a non-air gap would have to depend on absorbing all the heat required to allow smooth operation from its belly. With huge volumes of air/gas mixtures flowing through the ports, do really believe that the belly of the intake passes enough heat energy to the mixture to make any difference at all?

It's an old wives tale....or opinions from those who don't have sense enough to tune their carb. Some folks always complain about anything that they don't understand, and peg their reasoning on something else.

Next winter on a very cold day I will post an unedited video proving what I am saying. I won't forget.
Speaking of heat, I'm gettin' pretty tired of takin' heat from some of you fellows just because I care about my fellow hot rodders and my intentions are good. I'm done with Air Gap intake manifolds. You'll never hear another word from me about them. I'm too damned old to argue over something which means nothing to me personally. Run 'em on your grocery-getter in Montana in the winter......or don't.....I don't care. Have a nice day.
 

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Im siding with mr Techinspector Richard, I have experienced "carb icing" while driving on the freeway at night in a wet/kinda foggy west coast winter. What happened was while driving I noticed that I was getting close to full throttle just to maintain about 65 mph. I had no idea what was going on so I pulled over, opened the hood and saw nothing wrong? The car sounded fine and revved fine? So I got in the car to continue,,, about 5 minutes later the same thing happened again? I limped the car home.
Next day I had a friend ,(That was a pilot) look at my car. He explained about carb ice and the symptoms were exactly what I had. Simple solution was to block my cold air intake that was drawing air from behind the grill and running a warm air tube to draw hot air from above the headers. I only required this during cold wet winter months.
Look up how a thermac works and then wonder why GM has it on most carbed applications. Also read up on carb heat and aviation? Im sure you can easily defeet the cold airflow to the airgap intake as long as you understand what and why. The information Techinspector has offered is factual, use this information and adapt as per your own needs. I use an airgap single plane intake with good success. Im glad I understand carb ice,,, Im thankful I had a friend that is smart like Techinspector that got me through a simple fix that could have driven me nuts. I was thinking electrical,,,,,
 

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I gotta agree. I too have heard of the issue with air gaps. That said, I had one on a 355 I drove daily. I mean daily, like it was my only car at the time. I never once had the issue the whole 8 years I had it that way in all weather from -10’ to 110’. Hot, dry, cold, wet, hot/wet cold/wet, or any combination and pump gas from where ever the tank needed filling. That car seem several different carbs too including e85. Not once did I ever have a problem aside from a choke that didn’t work like it should have.
I’m reasonably sure the icing thing could happen when the conditions are a perfect storm so I’d say if you want to use an air gap, you have my blessings however so know it’s a known issues to arise from a specific combination of air quality. That mindset pretty much goes for anything non OEM and even then the OEM has been known to have less than perfect attributes.
 

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I'm done with Air Gap intake manifolds. You'll never hear another word from me about them.
Ah Tech/Richard, you could at least ask where a person lives before condemning a design... Florida, Hawaii, S.Texas, Mexico, Vietnam have different conditions than Alaska, Siberia, Yukon, Iceland...

Plus boost heated air needs an intake that can cool it some...
.
 

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Simple solution was to block my cold air intake that was drawing air from behind the grill and running a warm air tube to draw hot air from above the headers. I only required this during cold wet winter months. Look up how a thermac works and then wonder why GM has it on most carbed applications.
Yeah, I told Tech the other day I just remove the open element or cold air cleaner and put the stock one on with Thermactor valve and hot air tube in winter to prevent carb. freeze... Chevy V8's have had air gap style intakes since 1916...

 

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Ah Tech/Richard, you could at least ask where a person lives before condemning a design... Florida, Hawaii, S.Texas, Mexico, Vietnam have different conditions than Alaska, Siberia, Yukon, Iceland...

Plus boost heated air needs an intake that can cool it some...
.
Never again Buzz, all done.....:thumbup:
 

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Whatever. Would you agree that proper carb tuning might have anything to do with "smooth operation"? If anybody substitutes "plug reading" for an O2 sensor/gauge to figure out what to do with their carb is just one step above doing nothing. Would you agree that "smooth operation" is probably 90% attributable to proper carb adjustment/tuning? I wonder, is a cooler fuel/air charge likely to increase performance? That happens at WOT, by the way, just like a racing engine.

So reading between the lines you seem to believe that anyone who says that they have zero performance problems with an air gap is lying or otherwise trying to cover up their bad decisions and waste of money and a stupid person. Pretty insulting.

Why don't performance heads have a heat riser port to the intake manifold? Seems then that a non-air gap would have to depend on absorbing all the heat required to allow smooth operation from its belly. With huge volumes of air/gas mixtures flowing through the ports, do really believe that the belly of the intake passes enough heat energy to the mixture to make any difference at all?

It's an old wives tale....or opinions from those who don't have sense enough to tune their carb. Some folks always complain about anything that they don't understand, and peg their reasoning on something else.

Next winter on a very cold day I will post an unedited video proving what I am saying. I won't forget.
Speaking of heat, I'm gettin' pretty tired of takin' heat from some of you fellows just because I care about my fellow hot rodders and my intentions are good. I'm done with Air Gap intake manifolds. You'll never hear another word from me about them. I'm too damned old to argue over something which means nothing to me personally. Run 'em on your grocery-getter in Montana in the winter......or don't.....I don't care. Have a nice day.
So you had a little bit of trouble with that one ? Rather than attempt a response or a factual answer to my questions you're packing your toys and running off?

Guys, don't hesitate to put an air gap on your engine but do tune your carburetor with an O2 sensor there's no other way to get it right. Get your cam dialed in and get your timing right And when it's right you'll have no problems. And I'm going to repeat myself one more time. Problems with air gap intake manifolds is an old wives tale and has no basis. It's a blame game.

And I apologize for hijacking the original posters questions and intent.
 
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