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I was watching Larry King and he mentioned that a president has never been elected from the Northern states since JFK and the Southern states have dominated the elections since JFK's election 44 years ago.

So my question is, what separates the south and the north other than latitude? Is it the economy down south? Population distribution? Senate seat distribution? Religious fundamentalist influence?

In Canada the separation is east/west mainly because of the dominant Ontario economy and population, although the Alberta oil riches and powerful BC economy has switched things around somewhat in recent years. There is much debate over House of Commons seat allocation because of the changing tax base in Canada, religious affiliation has almost never entered Canadian politics...not sure why it is mentioned in the US elections? Most Canadians would consider church and politics separate entities and subjects that should not mix.

I would like if we could limit this discussion to history and election facts, I am not interested in which party you favor although I have noticed that most northern states vote democrat and most southern states vote republican.

I am just interested in why?:confused:
 

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The religious influence is much stronger in the Red states than the Blue, and Bush won the election primarily on moral issues. If you notice the blue states on the east coast are the ones where all of the immigrants came to around the time of the industrial revolution, including my own Irish family. On the west coast the blue states are the ones where most of the newer Hispanic is growing. As a whole the people on the east/west coast are much different than those in the south/midwest.

I know, that doesn't really answer your question.
 

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I live fairly close to the Mason Dixon line, and MAN you know when you cross it, it's like another world.

My aunt and uncle moved to Richmond Virginia a few years ago. The neighbors don't really like them very much because they are Catholic.:rolleyes: The older couple next door did invite them over for dinner one night, the husband told my uncle that he was the first Catholic he ever let step foot inside his house.
 

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The northern states are usually considered to be the states that stayed with the Union in the Civil War.

The Mason-Dixon Line Linda refered to is along the southern border of Pennsylvania.
 

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Its really very simple.
First I'm a transplanted Yankee raised in a union family.

In the south very heavy Baptist and they hate unions, gays .

Now they feel the Democrats are the party of Unions, Gays and Blacks and anti guns.

Very, very simple!
 

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im on a highway to hell
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the diferences are old and stem from the economic realities of the begining of the country, the rural agricultural south had big plantations and the need for slaves and a completly different way of life from the industrial north. the northeast corridor is the largest comcentration of blue collar, lower income,people who historically have usually lean to liberal, and the south and midwest are more conservative, it really is a vast difference in the lifestyle and needs of the two groups. i think more so today than ever before.
 

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Most, not all, southern people tend to make decisions based on fact. The fact is that if George Bush was my neighbor, I'd invite him over for dinner. I think I could carry on a conversation with him.

If John Kerry was my neighbor I'd make him hate living here. He strikes me as a little too uppity to care what I think. Not that GW does but that's beside the point.

I took the time to look at as many relevant decisions, the ones I could find, that each of them made over the last few years.
I based my decision on what I saw. Kerry can't stick to his guns despite the hardships. Bush has and hopefully, within reason, continue to do so.

I could care less what the political affiliation is. I only care about what the man thinks and does.

Larry
 

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It has its basis in the American Civil war. The confederacy was fighting primarily for states rights over the power of the central government. A marvelous result of that conflict was the abolition of slavery but the war was not primarily about that issue. There were even freed blacks who fought for the confederacy ideal of self determination. That basic divide has migrated over the decades into a slight different facade but in essence is still a disagreement between those who want an all powerful central authority that guarantees cradle to grave security for the price of surrendered liberty. The New England elite class, the rust belt union class, and the poor minority class have formed an unholy alliance of Godless, socialism based government control of individuals, for their benefit of course, in the North East. A similar minded group in the Far West population centers has joined them. They are 180deg opposed to the independent, freedom at all cost, God fearing south and central majority of the country.

Religion, or more correctly, Christianity, is inextricably woven into the American cloth by the Forefathers. The Creator is invoked in our formative documents, and is undeniably one of the primary forces in the formation fo the country. The elite class is bound to eliminate God from every vestage of American life while the rest of the country believes we will cease to be great if we let that part of our heritage fade. Religious conflict can be found at the root of virtually every political conflit that exists in this country.

It is in every sense a true cultural war that will be won by one side or the other.

An interesting side note is what I observed on a recent trip to Trinidad/Tobago. That little paradise is populated by equal numbers of African and Indian (from India) both imported by England during their long colonization of that country. I asked what their political differences were and they explained that the two races got along super for most of the time but split down strict racial lines for elections. Seems whomever wins the majority tends to give their fellows the breaks when it comes to government policies, government land concessions, government jobs, etc.

As you mention it, appears Canada splits based on the elite, eastern, socialist leaning French population vs. the Western, English, independent, freedom loving group.

It is kind of like how the nuclear family group works, just on a larger scale - we are condemned to endure for our entire lives the results of decisions made very early by or parents, friend, or uncontrollable circumstances. Only difference is that a nation can't all fit into a single SUV and argue all the way to Disneyland and back!
 

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In all of my travels, I have found that the biggest difference is Attitude.

Most people in the south live a slower laid back life style, but in the last few years there has been a lot of migration from the north, so the the life style is changing somewhat. A lot of retires move to the south for the laid back life style and the weather.

Also we have milder winters in the south that appeals to a lot of people.

Troy
 

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To me it seems like the speed of things.Sure during the work week you kinda pick up the pace.But on the weekends you really do unwind.Seems Southern States have so much to do and no place in the South is much more than 9 or 10 hours from each other.Money is another thing.Sure alot of people in the south have some fat wallets,but those that are not loaded,don't seem to really care.There are so many more finer things in life than money.Population per square mile may also be a key to it.Come on down in the summer,kick off your flip flops and throw your feet in the stream while catching a stringer full of Bluegills.
 

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Because there is still a North and a South

The division of the country still exists...the war was never over and the southern states are still not completely united with the rest of the country. Haven't you heard, "The South Will Rise Again!"


Tazz


Rat Rods Rule!
 

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troy-curt said:
A lot of retires move to the south for the laid back life style and the weather.

That is very true; but, shortly after coming here they make every attempt to change the lifestyle to make it the same as it was from where they came from. :(

I myself am a "Damn Yankee" ( that's one that came south and stayed). Actually, I moved here from California (San Francisco bay area). Born in New York though and raised on Long Island.

I returned for a visit to Long Island in 1969 and found that nothing had changed there. Conversation was as though I had just left the room and returned, when in reality it had been 10 years.

Northern California was great! Southern California sucks! North Carolina is my home. I wasn't born here, but got here as fast as I could. :thumbup:

As Troy mentioned, the difference is attitude. As Willy's mentioned, the majority of the South consists of religious conservatives.
 

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Very well put Willys. I, like TC have traveled and lived in several states and had the opportunity to work with people from all over this country as well as other countries. I have learned that people are basically the same all over and not one area or country has a corner of the market of good or bad, smart or dumb, or any other combination of human characteristics you can dream up. You have to get through the defensive barriers that have built up in their surroundings. In the high population density areas, these barriers are thicker and it takes longer to penetrate them. I call it a space issue and there just is not much space in the over crowded Northeast, upper Mid West and the California coastal cities. Fla is the melting pot of people escaping their Northeast, upper mid West environment and the migrating Latin Americans. That once gracious, spacious state is now boiling over.

The South became a Solid South Democratic region of the country after the Civil war, mainly because of the Northern Republican Carpet Baggers that were sent to occupy the losers of the Civil War. The Republican Party was then liberal and the Democrats were staunch conservatives. The South to day is actually Democratic by registration and trend that way in state and local elections because most candidates are still conservative. When it comes to national elections; however, the South tends to vote Republican because the Democratic Party has swung so far to the Left.

How did this big swing evolve over the past 140 years? My take is it started right after World War I. Millions of Americans from all states and walks of life came together in our military and this was an eye opening and educational experience. The state and regional values crossed lines. Mutual trust and respect was formed. Then came the Great Depression, following the Stock Market Crash in 29. There we no jobs or opportunity in the non industrialized South and workers, followed by their families, migrated to the Northeast and Mid West to work in the factories; a dramatic move that would not have occurred so readily had it not been for the WWI experiences. Social clashes happened, but over time, they diminished. But the Southern Conservative values crept into the Republican Party and grew. In the meantime, the Northern Democratic Party began to take move toward the Left as a back lash of what was happening to the Republican Party. I would venture to say the slow evolutionary process crossed paths between the Eisenhower and Kennedy administrations. Harry Truman, a die hard Democrat was about as conservative as you could get, while Kennedy was fiscal conservative, but socially liberal. When Lyndon Johnson introduced "the Great Society", the Democratic party erased all conservative values and the Republican Party evolution to the Southern Conservative values continued. to the Right. At this point, I might add that the Democratic move to the Far Right was at a much faster pace than the slower evolution in the Republican Party. Just yesterday, on of the leading Democratic Strategist stated that the Party must return more toward the center if it wants to survive in the National Competition. Hmmmm!!??

During all of this, I did not mention the Dust Bowl where so many rural Arkies, Jayhaws, and Okies move west to California. The same evolution transpired there. So in my opinion, the South and our mid west heart land took their Conservative values into the industralized Northeast and Mid West and pushed the Republican Party to the Conservative Right and the Northeastern and Midwestern Democrats move to the Far Left. The majority of the people in the "Red Area" of this country does not trust or embrace the idealistic far right values pushed by Northeastern, Midwestern, or West Coast Democrats.

Now back to 4 Jaws post that started all this, there is a border on the maps that separate out two countries, but there is much common history and roots in our countries. Because of the line on the map to the South and the natural Artic barrier to the North, yours is an East west issue with a little bit of Stiff French Twist wedged in. All the space between the Wedge and BC mirrors our Heartland , BC mirrors our West Coast and Nova Scotia resembles Fla. When you study Europe, you can see the geographic influence on the different countries and can see the same patterns here in the Western Hemisphere. My assessment is that the majority of Canadians tend to be more like the Scandinavian Countries, much like our Northern tier. Our Southern part of the country has more of the Mediterranean and Spanish influence. And then there is the French Twist. Your own little challenge to deal with. While I do not agree with your Socialized Medicine and the high individual tax on many of your population, I could readily feel at home in much of Canada

Trees
 

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[email][email protected][/email] said:
That basic divide has migrated over the decades into a slight different facade but in essence is still a disagreement between those who want an all powerful central authority that guarantees cradle to grave security for the price of surrendered liberty. The New England elite class, the rust belt union class, and the poor minority class have formed an unholy alliance of Godless, socialism based government control of individuals, for their benefit of course, in the North East. A similar minded group in the Far West population centers has joined them. They are 180deg opposed to the independent, freedom at all cost, God fearing south and central majority of the country.

Religion, or more correctly, Christianity, is inextricably woven into the American cloth by the Forefathers. The Creator is invoked in our formative documents, and is undeniably one of the primary forces in the formation fo the country. The elite class is bound to eliminate God from every vestage of American life while the rest of the country believes we will cease to be great if we let that part of our heritage fade. Religious conflict can be found at the root of virtually every political conflit that exists in this country.

It is in every sense a true cultural war that will be won by one side or the other.
Willys - You should be a columnist! You would be on my list of favorites. :thumbup:

When you look at the map by county, it really gives a good perspective on what you are saying and that it is not necessarily a north/south issue. Edit Note: This is the 2000 Bush vs. Algore map



It boils down to who you think should be in charge of your life and your family's life - the government or you. And, do you want to follow morals defined by men, or by God. Personally, I prefer the latter in both cases. And, I think that primarily, it is these ideals that separate the colors on the map above. Ed.

__________________________________________________
Who is Jesus?.:)
 

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or Jeff, or Doc, or...
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Edge-

Where'd ya get that map? NY State is colored all wrong! Anything North of the 43rd parallel is 100% different than the City. It also shows radicals in th extreme bortheast. WAY different. Its conservatives up there. All 150 of them. (Mostly woods)

(and theyre all related....Uncle-Pop, Sister-Mom)

I kin here the banjo plain noww
 

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You beat me to it with the map! Note the blue areas are concentrated @ major metropolitan population areas and regions dominated by illegal alien influence. Even the notoriously liberal Left coast, rust belt, and North East regions are dominated area-wise by Conservative leaning counties.

I found my map @ USA Today but it is incomplete w/ some counties still counting votes I guess. I think mine is the 2004 one and yours is the Algore 2000 one. Very similar but the later map is even redder.
 

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[email][email protected][/email] said:
... yours is the Algore 2000 one. Very similar but the later map is even redder.
I just "saved as" my map, and can't remember exactly where I got it. I will edit my post and clarify this for I believe you are right that it is the 2000 Algore map. But I will leave it up for reference.

Wow, look at PA, OH and NY. Mostly "Red". I guess that the highly populated city regions prefer higher taxes and more government control of their lives. Ed.
 
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