[csangster]

Good morning,

I have been out of the hot-rodding scene for at least 10 years now, but I am trying to get back into it with my trusty old 64 Impala SS.

She currently has a 283 and a powerglide.....which is going to be replaced.

I am interested in building a small-block chevy powerplant that can put out between 450-500 HP and 450-500 ft-lbs of torque, still get around on pump gas, take it to the strip to race and drive it to work as well.

I am interested in supercharging and nitrous injection systems.

I would like to stay with a small block chevy so I don't have to change my motor mounts location.

I have a Muncie M-22 rockcrusher that I am going to run behind the powerplant, so I feel comfortable with my transmission being able to handle the power. I know I will need to beef the rear end a little bit, but I would like to cover that in a separate thread.

I am working on a budget and don't have the funds to make a 'no expense spared' motor........I would just like to know what is the best 'bang for the buck'.

Questions:
1) What books/manuals/references would you recommend for educating myself on chosing the correct combination for my car?
2) Is it unreasonable to ask a small block chevy to give me this kind of power and still be able to drive me to work?
3) If the answer to #2 is 'yes' what is a reasonable amount of power to ask from a small block chevy?
4) As I eluded to earlier, SBC and BBC included, what is the best 'bang for your buck' engine combination?

Thank you for your help,
Chris

 

[firestone]

To get a motor to make that much hp with nitrous is easy; without it, it is still possible, but you are probably looking at around $6000 to build a motor like that. Supercharging is always a good way to make power, but then again, you are looking at $3000-$4000 for the supercharger kit alone. With a 383 with aluminum AFR 195cc heads, and a hydraulic roller cam in the .230-.235 dur @.050 range, 450-500 hp would be pretty easy, and the motor would be really streetable. Those heads are CNC ported, and the best bang for the buck but they are $1300 a set. That is a good deal considering a set of any other high quality aluminum heads are going to cost around $1100-$1200 without any porting.
Here are some components that I would recommend;


This is a long block from a company called Revolutionary Performance, Personally, I would switch the 5.7 rod for a 6 inch. and add $400 to the price for a hydraulic roller cam instead of a flat tappet.

Street/Strip Stroker AFR Upgrade SBC 383 4 bolt main block, Eagle cast steel 3.75" crank, Eagle SIR 5.7" rods, KB Performance hypereutectic 9.6:1 pistons, Sealed Power rings, solid or hydraulic flat tappet cam, double roller timing set, new balancer and flywheel, pushrods, Air Flow Research 195cc heads, HP springs, locks, and seals, aluminum race series 1.6 rocker arms standard
$4000

Here are some other parts that I would recommend;

XR282HR (230 236 @.050, .510 .520 lift, 2200-5800 powerband)
or
286HR(230 230 @.050 .560 .560 lift 2500-6000 powerband)

-both of these cams will start and end making power around 300 rpm sooner due to the fact that you would have a 383

Performer RPM air gap intake

a demon 750 carb.

any good distributor

and a good set of spark plug wires.

All of this would add up to around $6000-$6500 for all the little odds and ends, and the motor would be right around 500hp.

Good luck
Adam

 

[csangster]

To get a motor to make that much hp with nitrous is easy; without it, it is still possible, but you are probably looking at around $6000 to build a motor like that. Supercharging is always a good way to make power, but then again, you are looking at $3000-$4000 for the supercharger kit alone. With a 383 with aluminum AFR 195cc heads, and a hydraulic roller cam in the .230-.235 dur @.050 range, 450-500 hp would be pretty easy, and the motor would be really streetable. Those heads are CNC ported, and the best bang for the buck but they are $1300 a set. That is a good deal considering a set of any other high quality aluminum heads are going to cost around $1100-$1200 without any porting.
Here are some components that I would recommend;


This is a long block from a company called Revolutionary Performance, Personally, I would switch the 5.7 rod for a 6 inch. and add $400 to the price for a hydraulic roller cam instead of a flat tappet.

Street/Strip Stroker AFR Upgrade SBC 383 4 bolt main block, Eagle cast steel 3.75" crank, Eagle SIR 5.7" rods, KB Performance hypereutectic 9.6:1 pistons, Sealed Power rings, solid or hydraulic flat tappet cam, double roller timing set, new balancer and flywheel, pushrods, Air Flow Research 195cc heads, HP springs, locks, and seals, aluminum race series 1.6 rocker arms standard
$4000

Here are some other parts that I would recommend;

XR282HR (230 236 @.050, .510 .520 lift, 2200-5800 powerband)
or
286HR(230 230 @.050 .560 .560 lift 2500-6000 powerband)

-both of these cams will start and end making power around 300 rpm sooner due to the fact that you would have a 383

Performer RPM air gap intake

a demon 750 carb.

any good distributor

and a good set of spark plug wires.

All of this would add up to around $6000-$6500 for all the little odds and ends, and the motor would be right around 500hp.

Good luck
Adam

Adam,

Thank you for the input, and I hope you don't mind but I would like to ask you a few more questions, if nothing more, than to give myself an education.

Topic being....nitrous and supercharging.

What different components are necessary to run nitrous on a motor? I am aware of the danger of going lean with a nitrous setup and I really don't want to blow the top off of my motor (I don't think anyone does!) Would it be unreasonable to build a ~400HP motor and then put a 150HP shot of nitrous on it instead of building a big 500HP unit?

I have looked at the pro-street superchargers by weiand (specifically the 177); the prices of these pro-street blowers seem to be in the $1800 dollar range. I am aware that a 177 does not move as much air and fuel as the big blowers do, and that directly relates to power production, but I am kind of a sucker for that blower sound, but I don't want a big dual carb blower setup of the 8-71's. How would I have to build the motor differently to get the same horsepower as stated before with a blower instead of normal aspiration? I know I should be running on the order of 7.5:1 or 8:1 compression, have a high flow set of heads and intake, and protect my motor against detonation, but what other recommendations do you have?

I am just trying to learn from you pros....

Thanks again,
Chris

 

[firestone]

I dont know if I would consider myself a pro, but I'll try to answer your questions the best I can. As far as a nitrous setup goes, there is really not a whole lot that you need to do to a motor to allow it to handle a 100 shot or so. There are some little things that you can do with the cam to allow the motor to react to nitrous better, but with running a modest amount, I wouldent even worry about that. If you did go with nitrous, I would go with a wet kit just to make sure you are getting the fuel you need when you hit it. As far as the short block goes, I would not go with anything less than what I recommended before. You can defantely go with better parts, but I would not use stock parts just for peace of mind. If you wanted to run a bigger shot of nitrous, then you would probably want to upgrade to better parts. You could go with a 383 with Vortec heads, and a hydraulic flat tappet cam, and that motor would be in the 400 hp range. You could add a 100 shot to that and it would be a fast motor, but for $500 more, you could have the motor I recommended, and have almost as much hp all the time without the nitrous. As far as a supercharger goes, you could go with a smaller one, but keep in mind that the smaller you go with a supercharger, the fewer cubic inches and RPM you can go with. If you built a 8:1 383 and tried to run 10 lbs of boost at it with a supercharger like you are thinking, it would run so hot that it really wouldent make a whole lot of power. If you were running a stock 350, at 6lbs of boost, it would be a good choice, but the you really wouldent be making a whole lot more hp than a N/A motor like was stated before. A far as internal components go, if you buy parts at least as good as in the other combonation, as long as you by pistons to get the compression you want, that is about it besides the cam being a little different. I wrote this kind of fast, so I may have made some mistakes, but I am sure we will talk again.

Adam

 

[csangster]

Motor options....

I dont know if I would consider myself a pro, but I'll try to answer your questions the best I can. As far as a nitrous setup goes, there is really not a whole lot that you need to do to a motor to allow it to handle a 100 shot or so. There are some little things that you can do with the cam to allow the motor to react to nitrous better, but with running a modest amount, I wouldent even worry about that. If you did go with nitrous, I would go with a wet kit just to make sure you are getting the fuel you need when you hit it. As far as the short block goes, I would not go with anything less than what I recommended before. You can defantely go with better parts, but I would not use stock parts just for peace of mind. If you wanted to run a bigger shot of nitrous, then you would probably want to upgrade to better parts. You could go with a 383 with Vortec heads, and a hydraulic flat tappet cam, and that motor would be in the 400 hp range. You could add a 100 shot to that and it would be a fast motor, but for $500 more, you could have the motor I recommended, and have almost as much hp all the time without the nitrous. As far as a supercharger goes, you could go with a smaller one, but keep in mind that the smaller you go with a supercharger, the fewer cubic inches and RPM you can go with. If you built a 8:1 383 and tried to run 10 lbs of boost at it with a supercharger like you are thinking, it would run so hot that it really wouldent make a whole lot of power. If you were running a stock 350, at 6lbs of boost, it would be a good choice, but the you really wouldent be making a whole lot more hp than a N/A motor like was stated before. A far as internal components go, if you buy parts at least as good as in the other combonation, as long as you by pistons to get the compression you want, that is about it besides the cam being a little different. I wrote this kind of fast, so I may have made some mistakes, but I am sure we will talk again.

Adam

I agree, thank you for the great feedback.

Is there a manual that you would recommend that I read in order to get a better education for this?

Thanks again,
Chris

 

[RCastle]

Stay away from hyperutectic or cast pistons if spraying your engine.If you want power adders use a forged piston-Ron-

 

[csangster]

pistons

Stay away from hyperutectic or cast pistons if spraying your engine.If you want power adders use a forged piston-Ron-

Will do.......thanks!

 

[firestone]

I agree that if you are going to be running a 150 shot or more that I would go with a set of forged pistons, but if you only run a 100 shot or less, from what I have heard, a Kieth Black hyper piston shouldent have any problems. As far as books go, I really dont know.

Adam

 

[arch]

If you do get the hyper pistons, get em coated. hyper pistons are damage prone with pre-ignition. However, I agree, forged would be the best bet.

 

[RCastle]

I still would not take the chance with hyper for any nitrous application.Sure people have but the money saved wont add up if you melt a piston.

 

[leemoses]

a cheap recommendation

to start with take a look at how to build big inch chevy small blocks $20 barnes and nobles. you have two options 383ci or 406ci. i would go with the 383ci b/c i am cheap. get a good junk yard core 350 ($150 where i am from), misc machine work($250-500 it depends on the shop) fill it with a scat rotating assembly (for $869 from sallee chevrolet) you get a nodular crank good for 550 horsepower and 6500 rpms, 4340 i-beam rods and good forged pistons, get a premium engine rebuild kit ( for the nitrous you need great rings and head gaskets $200 out of jegs or summit),arp fastener kit($200 jegs) vortec heads modified for larger cam (from sallee chevy or scoggin dickey chevy from $650) compcams XE cam 262 or 268 ($150 from summit or jegs), air gap manifold ($250 from jegs or summmit), holley, demon ($300-500 thru jegs or summit)...finally build it to 9.0 to 1 static compression, get a NXS nitrous kit 150 hp to 300hp adjustable ($600 jegs) without juice 350-400hp, but a flat 450lb torque curve that will be a blast to drive with your lead sled ; on the nitrous up 600 to 700hp. with the arp bolt kit or block should be good up to about 700hp if you got splayed 4-bolt caps its good to 950hp...hope this helps

oh yah almost forgot... the final cost of 600 to 700 hp counting the book...$3500 - $4200 considering the max price for the machine work and carb...

LeeMoses

 

[topfuel]

Chris if you have any additional questions, please feel free to give me a call. I'd be glad to answer any questions you have. :thumbup:

Barry

 

[ChevelleSS_LS6]

a 348 would be really cool to build up, isn't the 409 a stroked 348 too?

interesting ideas here.
-matt

 

[bamacj]

After building a 383 for my jeep and looking back at the dollar amount I spent, I could have got a comparable crate motor for less or close to the same, with out all the headaches. Dont get me wrong I am learning alot on engine building from my mistakes "they can be expencive though" and loved every minute of it.Unless your the type that likes to do everything yourself you might want to look at some crate motors. Some books I have are, "building the small chevy" "hotrodding the small chevy" and the "Reher Morrison top end and bottom end manuals" The last two are pricey.

 

[ap72]

There are a couple of books by Smokey Yunick- I all but memorized them when I was 15. They're great for beginners.

450HP out of a 350 chevy will come out as easy as a wet fart if you know what you're doing. Get a goo hydraulic cam in the 290 adv. duration range, then 1.7 ratio rockers, and some Rhodes lifters (they help idle quality a lot). Also use Total Seal Gapless rings (again helps idle quality and adds needed low end vacuum). Go with ported iron Vorted heads machined for high lift- they're cheap and effective. On the street you need long tube headers(1 5/8) - they don't have the top end HP of shorties, but you'll need low end TQ just as much if not more so. If you want to hit 600HP you'll need spray so go with foged pistons, otherwise cast are fineand coated hypers are even better. make sure you have the block gone through really well, I mean everything- it'll cost a lot, but its worth it in the long run. Go with an Air Gap intake, and you'll need to port it out some. Use 6" rods and if you're using spray go with aftermarket forged, as well as the crank. On 87 octane you can run about 9.7:1 compression, and on premium about 10.2:1- I'd go with 9.7 so you can run premium with your nitrous as a form of cheap insurance. Get a good HEI distributor with Accel module and HI output coil. For the carb go with a nice Mighty Deamon or a Preadator. That combo will put you more towards 500HP, and is kinda lazy untill 2250 RPM, but with some decent gears and a higher stall converter you're *** will be firmly planted in your seat. Oh, and 3 inch exhaust.

PM me sometime if you want to talk engines, though I might go off the deep end with numbers and theroies.