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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
I missed a couple questions There is no voltage at the solenoid S and I terminals with the key in the run position. The Tach is disconnected
My grandson is in the Navy and was here for a few days even tho we didn't get it running he did a great job of building the exhaust system I think it sounds great and it was fun working with him. To complicate matters this fuse panel has a kill switch I have no idea which position is on or off I will call quick wire. I tried both positions didn't seem to make a difference. As far as the Ford solenoid I may have been brainwashed on that. It makes a good junction block and makes a good place to hook up remote any way this what I have .Pink wire from I side of solenoid to + side of coil pink goes from + coil to fuse panel black wire from dist. to neg. side of coil red dist. wire goes to + side of coil. On the solenoid the only wire on the I side is the pink wire going to the +coil. yellow goes down to the solenoid purple to neutral safety switch when the engine is cranking there is 12v power on the i terminal. When the key is in he run position there is no power to s or i on the solenoid.
Couple of questions I missed Should I pump gas into into a jug to measure ? how do I hotwire it? jump from bat to coil?
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So, will the engine start immediately after it dies? Is fuel pump electric or mechanical?

And you said after it dies, there is still 12volts on the coil + terminal, right?
This is a new mechanical fuel pump No power at the coil with the key in run position
 

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There is no voltage at the solenoid S and I terminals with the key in the run position
That is correct, there shouldn't be any at the "S" and "I" solenoid terminals in the ignition switch "Run" position

how do I hotwire it? jump from bat to coil?
Yes, temporary jumper wire from Bat + to coil +


No power at the coil with the key in run position
Then you need to find out why, because this is the entire problem.

There should be a 12v+ from the ignition switch, through the firewall harness connector/fuse box, to the coil + post when the ignition switch is in the "run" position.. ..for an HEI distributor.
Stock points distributor it has to be cut down to 7-8 volts by resistance wire or ballast resister.

The yellow wire from starter solenoid "I" terminal to coil + terminal was simply a bypass wire and only hot during starter crank. The original function of this yellow wire was to provide a full 12v to the coil only during starter crank, for easier starting due to the fact the original GM wiring had a ballast resistor/resistance wire inline between the ignition switch and the coil.....the resistance was used to cut the voltage down to around 7-8 volts to avoid burning the points contacts during regular engine operation, to improve their lifespan.

If you are running an HEI the yellow wire is eliminated.


Every description you give of how the engine dies points to the same thing....the coil + is only receiving power when the starter is cranking, from the yellow bypass wire......it is not getting any power to the coil+ post from the ignition switch "run" terminal.
As soon as you release the key from the starter crank position, the engine dies.....because when key is released and solenoid is disengaged, the yellow wire is likewise then disengaged, no power.
 

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The above post is difficult to read and comprehend. Please post which wires go where again, this time using one line for each.

For example:

--Pink wire goes from "I" terminal on solenoid to + side of coil.
--Black wire goes from distributor to negative side of coil

And please answer these questions which I asked earlier. If you did answer them, I missed it.

--So, will the engine start immediately after it dies? Is fuel pump electric or mechanical?
--And you said after it dies, there is still 12volts on the coil + terminal, right?
 

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Every description you give of how the engine dies points to the same thing....the coil + is only receiving power when the starter is cranking, from the yellow bypass wire......it is not getting any power to the coil+ post from the ignition switch "run" terminal.
As soon as you release the key from the starter crank position, the engine dies.....because when key is released and solenoid is disengaged, the yellow wire is likewise then disengaged, no power.
That was my first thought, but in one of his earlier posts, I thought he said there was 12 volts on the coil + terminal after the engine stopped. Also, did you notice in the video that the engine runs several seconds after it starts? That means he has 12 volts on the + coil terminal for at least a few seconds. That could be a transmission or radiator cooler fan acting as a generator and putting 12 volts on the IGN bus for a few seconds.
 

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the red wire to distributor needs 12v key on and key start

the coil needs voltage key on and key start but it may need to be reduced through a resistor, depends on the coil
 

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You need to run tests at this point you’re trying to ID the problem not fix it. To that end I recommend disconnecting the wires on the positive side of the coil and wiring only the red lead to the distributor. Same with the negative side disconnect everything but the black to the distributor.

Then jumper from a known hot 12 volts to the positive side of the coil and immediately crank it up. You cannot let it sit not running like this for very long as with the engine nor running the module will overheat and die.

The only thing we’re looking for is will it start and keep running.

I do not like your fuel line clear plastic has no place on an engine actually no place period. It is unbelievably dangerous the material is not strong nor very heat resistant a fuel leak on the engine will lead to a serious fire, I highly recommend replumbing this in pressure rated fuel line ASAP!

Yes there is the question on the table about the fuel pump. Include that the Edelbrock does not like much pressure a gauge is a good idea. Choke setting another good idea too much will flood the engine.

But start with the jumper, one thing at a time.

Bogie
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
You need to run tests at this point you’re trying to ID the problem not fix it. To that end I recommend disconnecting the wires on the positive side of the coil and wiring only the red lead to the distributor. Same with the negative side disconnect everything but the black to the distributor.

Then jumper from a known hot 12 volts to the positive side of the coil and immediately crank it up. You cannot let it sit not running like this for very long as with the engine nor running the module will overheat and die.

The only thing we’re looking for is will it start and keep running.

I do not like your fuel line clear plastic has no place on an engine actually no place period. It is unbelievably dangerous the material is not strong nor very heat resistant a fuel leak on the engine will lead to a serious fire, I highly recommend replumbing this in pressure rated fuel line ASAP!

Yes there is the question on the table about the fuel pump. Include that the Edelbrock does not like much pressure a gauge is a good idea. Choke setting another good idea too much will flood the engine.

But start with the jumper, one thing at a time. when Janet

Bogie
Thank you guys for your extreme patience it's starting to be less overwhelming . Good news it runs and stays running when hot wiring to the coil ruling out the fuel pump and carb are great. Sounds so great nothing like the sound of a chevy. When Janet gets home I'll ask her to list what color wires go where I'' be here all day with the one finger typeing.
 

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When Janet gets home I'll ask her to list what color wires go where I'' be here all day with the one finger typeing.
Ha, geezers.........join the club....
Glad to hear you got it running.
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
Changed the fuel line asap. O.K. this is dumb I want to make separate lines of wire colors and componets As BogiesAnnex1 sugested that post was a mess to follow the curser only moves left to right. How do i move down to the next line ?
 

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Rod...from a Chrysler?
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Arrow up/down keys?

Are you making a drawing on the computer?
If so, what program?
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
I just want to make a simple post like #23 I cant go up or down with the cursor I'm going to try the ipad. This is totally nuts.
 

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Put you cursor at the end of the sentence, hit enter and it will go down.
You can't just click where you want to start.
 

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Changed the fuel line asap. O.K. this is dumb I want to make separate lines of wire colors and componets As BogiesAnnex1 sugested that post was a mess to follow the curser only moves left to right. How do i move down to the next line ?
I think you’re passing the point of needing to produce this this information.

I’d consider wiring the starter in the conventional Chevy method without the Ford solenoid. To this end you and we need to know the terminal designations on your ignition switch and the Chevy solenoid on the starter as there were a couple different ways Chevy wired these so knowing what terminals are on the solenoid and key switch will help. Typically there are two types auxiliary terminals on the starter solenoid. One version will be marked with two small terminals designated R and S. The other version will have only one small terminal which is marked S. This is often used for the voltage source for the coil with a receiving wire from the “start” terminal of the ignition switch. Turning the switch to start delivers 12 volts to activate the stater solenoid the wire to coil supply’s full battery voltage while cranking. In the run position back when your

I’m not a big fan of relays where they are not needed it just adds another failure point. Given automobiles and light trucks are not so distant from one place to the other nor so space and weight constrained as aircraft or ships my first choice is to up-gauge the wiring. Back your 65 was new it had points so there would have been a firewall mounted resistor or a resistive wire in the run circuit that drops the voltage to 6 to 9 volts, I assuming with recognition what the word ‘assume’ devolves to that your replacement harness unless otherwise specified is intended for that ignition configuration. So you will probably need to make adjustments to feed a full 12 volts to the coil and electronic ignition all of the time.

Knowing what ignition switch you are using and what the small terminal configuration of the solenoid is (1 or 2) will help get you to a permanent solution.

Bogie
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
Bogie thanks for the insight I've never used relays or solenoids before I might have gone a different direction . I had a heck of a time with the light and fan relays testing those will be soon well lets just keep our fingers crossed. Theirs a picture on post #14 of the Ford style solenoid I'll describe that . Well just now while rummaging around under the dash I found one side of the kill switch that was cut off . The switch is not marked so I just need to try both positions. Wish I could try it right now but my neighbors wouldn't enjoy it as much as I would. Thank you all for your comments.
 

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I run a kill switch on Frankenmouse but it i’d not to thwart thieves so it’s out in plane sight. I’m running a moderately hot cam and a lot of compression so especially in hot weather it helps to let the starter get a head start on cranking the engine before turning on the ignition. The fuel pump being electric it also has a manual interrupt as do the cooling fans. But much of this is from the shop days when this was a test bed for various fuel injection and ignition schemes. After retiring I converted it to a carb and small cap HEI. Snice a lot of tests involved GM EFI the computer connectors and wiring were also removed, that really cleaned up the engine compartment.

Bogie
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
Darn it That did not solve my problem, later today I'll post where what goes where as you said coil coil coil. Gota get some stuff done.
 

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Since it's an electronic ignition distributor, you simply need + and - wires to the coil/distributor, no resistor, and no wire coming back from the starter solenoid.
Also, get rid of the remote solenoid.
The only time that might be needed is when headers get your starter too hot and you have starter problems.
In that case, you get a mini-starter and/or heat shielding instead.

Basically, make sure there is not a resistor in the system, cut and terminate the ignition wire from the starter, so that you only have the solenoid power and ground wires, and get rid of the remote solenoid.
 

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When I've had this kind of problem, I have found several different causes. If it's still not running, I would check the operation of the separate pieces if you haven't already: has the starter solenoid failed....I've had to replace those. Starter solenoid or starter grounds can give similar results.
Additionally, do you have steady fuel pressure?...I have frequently found bad ground connectings for the fuel supply. I've also had a dying ignition switch give me much the same symptoms. Lastly, I've had coils fail with some frequency. Failing coils sometimes will give you a little jump start, but then are unable to sustain power. I remount coils away from high engine heat. Many can't take much engine heat. Lastly, I would make sure every switch involved is working dependably.....all wires are good and all grounds connections good. Others may have better ideas, but these have solved a lot of my similar isues. Good luck.
 

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Darn it That did not solve my problem, later today I'll post where what goes where as you said coil coil coil. Gota get some stuff done.
What did not solve your problem? Are talking the disconnected kill switch or jumping 12 volts to the coil not allow the engine to continue running after starting?

Bogie
 

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Discussion Starter · #40 ·
Thank you guys for your help I'm learning more about this then I ever wanted to know, I am becoming more familiar with what goes where without having to retrace wires. As many of you have said it's simple, I'm not getting power to the coil. when I hot wired it it runs so that ruled out several things carb feul pump defective coil great! I neatened up the coil terminals had to change to non insulated terminal ends so I could fit the 4 wires +The nut. I started going backwards from the switch looking as to why the coil has no power .I think the culprit may be #33 orange #12 gauge wire originates from fuse panel and hook to Ignition acc. side of ignition switch . This is a hot non fused wire. This is where it gets interesting not only is the orange wire apparently dead the top row of fuses are dead coil, horn, radio,ac heat The fuses are good. The last thing I wanted was to pull that fuse panel out rea tight quarters If the If the orange wire was shorted I would have burned up some wiring by now wouldn't I. I would appreciate more ideas I'm way over my head on this wiring.
 
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