[william27103]

I want to build my car to run on gasoline and ethanol, either one straight, or both mixed together. The car is a 1980 camaro. The engine is a 9.x compression, I thing probably 9.6, with aluminum intake manifold and aluminum head (i include that because I've heard that alcohol is corrosive to aluminum.

With the Holley System, I will be able to load fuel maps easily for switching back and forth between alcohol and gas, or any mix quickly.

I am using stainless steel fuel line to cut down on corrosion in that part of the fuel system. What would the effects be on the stock fuel tank, and how could I solve the problem if there was one?

It may not get as many miles per gallon but If i was making my own ethanol, that wouldn't be as big of a problem.

Also, does anyone know anything about tuning an engine for alcohol, how far do you have to adjust the timing to run the alcohol effeciently and effectively, and how much richer do I need to set the injectors to achieve good power/good mileage?

Thanks,
Will

 

[johnsongrass1]

Ethanal, or Grian Alcohol(alky) needs a mixture of close to 2 1/2 times that of gasoline. You might have problems getting you injectors to flow that much. I think you are going ot runout or duty cycle. A fuel pump demand issue is something to worry about. The O2 sensor wouldn't live long either.

Braided lines are a good start to combating the corrosive nature of alky. You'll need special seals in the injectors and all through the fuel lines.

I don't think that gas and alky mix very well without a stabilizer to prevent the two from seperating. One weighs 6 pounds per gallon and the other is 6.5

 

[Siggy_Freud]

I dont think that given setup is going to run very well on alcohol. Given that your oxygen sensor is a very intrical part of the MPFI (especially if you ever hope to operate in true closed loop mode) and like Johnson said, your sensor wouldn't last long under those conditions.

Why not just build a kickass system that runs on gas. While setting it up for alcohol as well is cool, I dont think you'll save any more money doing so.

 

[TurboS10]

Most O2 sensors are designed to work with gasoline. Since stoich with ethanol is about half or less of gasoline the computer will not know the difference unless it is tunable....which I doubt with the holley stuff. Secondly, injectors large enough to work with alcohol are going to be too large to idle properly with gasoline if they would idle at all. You might could fiddle with PWM on lowz injectors and make it work, but I seriously doubt the Holley will do that.

You need to plan for one or the other. Both will not work. EFI is not something you can haphazardly tune. It is very intricate and takes alot of time to do properly. Changing or mixing fuel will only insure that the engine will be impossible to properly tune....might work with the right equipment, but not with Holley off the shelf stuff and not without custom tuning.

Chris

 

[Max Keith]

alchy engine

jophnsongrass is right on the money with his discertation. Ford has out what is called an AFV, or alternative fuel vehicle, which is designed to run on either gas or ethanol. You have to turn a switch on the computer and this is just on a small compact engine. The tech would be a nightmare to work up.

Ditto Turbo S-10 as well.

 

[TurboS10]

I could be wrong, but I thought that the AFV thing was for running a mix that apparently some companies up north sell. I have never seen it for sale personally and I am not sure about the content of the fuel. You can bet is not grain alkyhol made in pappys still in the barn.

Chris

 

[1BAD80]

DITTO with all the above, each one hits a different point.
The compression should be higher, around 11:1 and have one heck of a coil for the spark needed. A larger fuel tank will have to be towed in back since you use twice that of gas.
Search this site and you will find many postings like this one.
One thing when using 100% alcohol is the corrosion after shut down in the bores.

 

[Max Keith]

fuel mixtures

I retired from the Dept of Corrections for the State of Iowa in Jan 03, we had several AFV cars in use in the state. Being that Iowa is a major if not the major manufacturer of Ethanol that is blended into gasoline now, it only seem logical that would be the step they would go, since You can buy at many stations here what is called E-85 or 85% ethanol. This does require the AFV set up to run. One side note is that some of the guys running IMCA modifieds have gone to running it as its more stable and easier to work with than Methanol or straight Ethanol, for fuel. Having driven a few vehicles using the E-85 in AFV's, I can tell you that you will notice a slight increase in power but the mileage goes down the toilet. Exhaust emissions are way down too. I guess if I was in the mood to run a street rod on Alchy, I would go with E-85, as alchohol will boost your torque by about 30% with all else being equal. Unfortunately, there is only one station within 25 miles of me that carries the stuff. We had our own storage tanks at the Prison.

 

[wddgodoy]

Alcohol as fuel, for street use

I am not sure if this thread is still alive, but I live in Brazil, and here alcohol (ethanol) has been used as fuel for the past 20 years. From the carburetor era to the modern MPFI systems, this fuel does work well in any engine. Currently many new cars (econoboxes) come with is called "fuel flex" - you can replenish the tank with gasoline, alcohol, or any mixture in between, and it will work just fine. After 20 years of learning, corrosion, cold starts and similar problemas have been overcome.