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Discussion Starter #1
Has anyone seen this truck in person or in a mag and can you explain the front suspension? These are the best pics I could find (from wackydave's great collection of car show pictures). I'm guessing it uses some sort of torsion concept. Great rod BTW.



 

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I'd bet that there is a torsion bar setup, that connects to those 2 posts coming out the side ( 1 for each side ), so the bar's will twist, and support the weight.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Would the torsion bar eliminate both the spring and the shock? I don't see either.

Also, I want to make sure I attribute those pictures properly. They come from Dave Lindsay's web site SoCalCarCulture.Com and were taken by him. Some great car pictures there BTW...and tons of them.
 

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These are always hard to figure out unless you see the build pics. This looks like a Lil John Buttera build. Take a look at the build pics for his lakes modified roadster in Street Rodder magazine web site.

http://www.streetrodderweb.com/features/0703sr_1928_lakes_modified/

This rod could use similar principles in the build but obviously very different. In the mag pics it looks like the coil over shocks are connected to the four bar/torsion bars on the inside of the frame. There have been several torsion bar/beam axle front suspensions built on high dollar rods recently because they seem to get a big reaction because every one wants to know where the springs and shocks are. Most mags don't seem to be too interested in the various choices of front and rear suspensions possible and usually just give a one sentence remark about the type of suspension. They seldom give a good pic of what it looks like or how it was done. The web pics in this case do it quite well but it would have nice to have a description/caption of what is being done. As for the pics you posted unless someone has build pics we can only guess how it was done.

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EFI Rules and Carbs Drool
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home brew said:
These are always hard to figure out unless you see the build pics. This looks like a Lil John Buttera build. Take a look at the build pics for his lakes modified roadster in Street Rodder magazine web site.

http://www.streetrodderweb.com/features/0703sr_1928_lakes_modified/
Thanks alot home brew, now my head really hurts. There's a lot going on in Lil Johns roadster, the pictures don't do it justice. I still can't figure out how he did the front end. It looks like the coil overs serve the rear through a series of cantilevered links, but I can't see much for the front. It does look like a pivot shaft in front of the motor connected to teh upper bars with links extending backward, but can't see what they're connected to.

Keep searching cboy, that model a truck is really cool.
 

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It looks to me like a suicide style front end where the spring is tucked up under the radiator support and the eyelets connect to the bottom inside on the hairpins . Very oldschool , very well done . swaZZie
 

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Discussion Starter #7
home brew said:
These are always hard to figure out unless you see the build pics.
I was hoping one of our left coast members had seen this rod in person and could fill us in on the detail. Swazzie might be right that there is a leaf spring tucked up under there, but the mounting eye and shackle is certainly well hidden if that is the case.
 

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Those lever arms sticking out from under the front frame corners are indicative of a torsion bar setup. Haven't seen any more detailed pictures of this vehicle to be able to give you a better idea.
I've seen cars built in the 40s with torsion bars. One in particular was the Willingham Roadster, a 26-27 T Roadster with a Deuce shell, three piece hood with hinged top and inside latching mechanism, full belly pan, oddly single exhaust which drops out of the belly pan near the engine crosses under the pan and re-enters the pan to a muffler mounted crossways in the truck and exiting through the back panel, 39 Taillamps, shortened windshield with curved top glass, 59A engine with converted Lincoln distributor, triple carns, Lincoln Zephyr OD transmission, K-H bent-spoke 16" wheels with Ascots on the rear. This car was built by a Lt. in the USAAF soemtime shortly after WWII, he signed the back of the dash panel. Current whereabouts unknown, was in Houston TX through the 70s-80s then moved to CA???
 

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I wonder... :pain:

If the torsion rods are at the pivot point of the radius rods and what appears to me to be some type of sway bar (easily discernable on the right side-bent bar forward-maybe left bar rearward) acting as both shock and sway bar?

It's is definitely beyond this Redneck's understanding... :D
 

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KULTULZ said:
I wonder... :pain:

If the torsion rods are at the pivot point of the radius rods and what appears to me to be some type of sway bar (easily discernable on the right side-bent bar forward-maybe left bar rearward) acting as both shock and sway bar?

... :D
I may be misinterpreting your observation Gary, but I think the "bent" arm you are referring to is actually the steering link. As for the suspension, it could be a bunch of different types. Instead of torsion bars at the radius rod pivots they could be connected to a set of coil overs that are under the car. It isn't a really clear picture, but I think that there is a cross leaf on the front as has already been suggested,tucked away for a very clean look.
 

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I think on that little truck that bent rod you see is the panhard bar. Just under it to the right is another rod which I believe is the drag link.
The pivot point of the radius rods is not where those torsion bar arms hook up but rather at the rear of the radius rods where they meet the frame. Notice the radius rods are filled from end to end with a plate to strengthen them for their new role as a suspension member. I imagine that the bottom bar of the radius rods has some flavor of pivot like a spring perch with a shackle or link to the torsion bar arm.
Just guessing from these pictures which don't show much of what wer'e talking about. The shocks could well be lever arm style mounted inside the front crossmember actuated by another arm on the torsion bars.
 

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I'm almost positive it uses torsion bars up front, and the whole front end is pivoted from there. If you were to jack the car up, the front would fold down from the torsion bar location.
Also there is a hydraulic brake fitting on the passenger side front that looks like it goes to the back side of the front axle, t'ees there and feeds both sides hidden behind the axle.
The rear is a bit more hidden, and could be any number of different type of suspension. It is very clean and well...it sure has our interest.
 

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Could be something like this pretty slick setup on this model A - torsion bars run back to air bags.

As others have said, if you look real close behind the axle of the pickup in question, it looks like there are some links that may connect to a torsion bar inside the frame.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Here are a couple more shots...but I don't think they reveal much. 454Rattler just emailed and said that car was in the March issue of Street Rodder...but apparently no info on the suspension.





 

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I think Pasadena has it pegged.

A few years ago I finished up a 27 roadster for a guy that had a suspension that utilized torsion bars ran inside the frame, (spring type, no air bags) and it had horizontal levers with links that attached to the axle , just inside of the batwings. The ends of the torsion bar inside the frame were landed back by the cowl and the front of the torsion bar was supported by a bushed tube, welded to the (bobbed) frame horn. The levers were attached via splined drive bushings, and the end of the lever that rode on the axle were on a slot and roller arraingement.

Ron Attebury built the one I worked on and IIRC it used friction shocks.

I know he did several more that were similar, but used links at the ends of the lever, as the slot and roller setup rattled.

That doesn't look like Ron's work though.

I see brake hoses, Poncho, so don't get the noose out yet. :p
( I know centerline has a standing search for that "no front brake" line :pain: Uh oh... I said it)

BTW, there is no way that the torsion bar is mounted longitudally. The lever arm length that is the radius rods would require a huge torsion bar. Look at the ends, they are no more than 1 1/2" OD. That aluminum would split in a heartbeat.

Later, mikey
 

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Arrowhead circled the links. They are behind the drag link. They could either be attached to torsion bars in the frame rails with some form of friction for harmonic suppression (shock absorber) or they could be attached to a rod which would then transfer the suspension travel to a coil over shock (in the cowl area maybe?).
 

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pasadenahotrod said:
I think on that little truck that bent rod you see is the panhard bar. .
Since it is the same color as the tie rod, and I have seen the exact same bend bar for sale by one of the suspension places...I'm pretty certain that it is the steering link off of a Vega box. It needs the bend because of the low stance to clear through suspension travel. The suspension is the only thing I am unsure about, but it looks as if it is a sunken leaf as was pointed out by an earlier poster. Of course with a cross spring a panhard rod would be unneccesary.
 

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The lever link is circled in red. It either attaches to the end of a torsion bar in the frame rail or a shaft which transfers the load back to a hidden coil over through another linkage.
 

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Dewey, it looks like I was wrong. The Lil' John Buttera Lakes-modified is in the March issue. This car was mentioned by other posters. Sorry about the mixup.

454 Rattler
 
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