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Drive it like a rental!
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Discussion Starter #1
After a lot of sanding, bodywork, 2K primer, wet sanding and prepping for paint, I sprayed it tonight only to find a bunch of fish eyes. It is pretty disappointing finish to a lot of hard work. Fish eyes are mostly on the right rear quarter panel and along the left front hood fender line. Here is the process I used:
1. Finished wet sanding last night.
2. Noon - Rinsed the entire car with water and a wash mit, put two fans on it to dry until about 4:30PM
3. Used PPG DX330 wax and grease remover following a post from MARTINSR. Applied with rag and wiped off with towel before it dried. Let dry with fans until about 7:30PM (also used endust and a rag after wax and grease remover)
4. Started to paint about 7:30. Roof and hood went great, feeling pretty good! Got to RR quarter and I thought I was getting bad orange peel until I realized what was going on.
5. I put on one light coat and then figured I might as well try the second heavier coat - no luck, still looks like dog doo!

I am painting a 1979 Malibu station wagon, I used Nason 2k high build primer and JDBB with the JD thinner and hardener. Painting in my garage @ about 70 degrees. I know the car isn't really worth much but I wanted to do the bodywork and paint for practice. I am satisfied with the body work, it looks pretty darn good, but the fish eyes just plain ticked me off tonight!!

Soooo, what could I have done differently to avoid this? What should i do now?

Thanks,
Rick
 

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point on positive
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curious ,,, is your compressor in the same room as the car you are painting?
 

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Drive it like a rental!
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166 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
fish eyes

Yes, the compressor is in the same heated garage. I have a simple water separator at the compressor and one of those black plastic filters at the gun, it has been on there for a long time so maybe I should have replaced it.

After the paint dried it looks like the fish eyes follow the pattern of were I wiped off the panels. Not sure if they are the wipe marks from my wash mitt or from the wax and grease remover. Some of the panels look great, some like crap with several different fish eye spots.

I didn't sleep very good last night - pretty frustrating for a beginner!!

Rick
 

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Many times compressors themselves send little tiny bits of areosol oil into the air, especialy those that have breathers/vents on the pump... these land on the clear and are one of several causes of surface type fisheyes like you discribe ..

This is like surgery and the germs of oil,wax water etc. can't be in the air weather in the air hose OR room air not even a little.

Some people have run a vent/breather hose to the outside area when moving the compressor was not an option and solved their fisheye problem...
 

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The Penny Pincher
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There's so many sources of contamination, it's impossible to
say for sure.
Sometimes it's the least suspected item.
My sister-in-law worked for Ford in the paint dept.
They traced a fish eye problem down to an employee's deoderant
falling onto the surface when he streched over the vehicle. :rolleyes:
So you have to really have an open mind here.
Your rags and towels can't touch anyting else.
Even your air hoses can get contaminated.
And what about your fans?
I use a seperate hose just for painting.
It's a hard thing to trace. Foprtunately I haven't had
the problem-YET!!!
I wash everything down with Dawn detergent and wipe dry
with a "clean" towel. then handle panels with gloves.
I always tack off with Endust-so I know it's not that.
I seldom ever use wax and grease remover. :pimp:
 

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Drive it like a rental!
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Discussion Starter #8
fish eyes

Yes, it is the same wash mit that I have used to wash cars although probably only a couple of times and I do not use it on the tires. It was washed in the washing machine and it was clean. I didn't use any soap or anything but I suppose there could have something else left in the mit?

What should I have used?
 

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The Penny Pincher
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Hard to say, that may not be it at all.
Looking for contamination is like looking
for a needle in a haystack.
I am a real believer of the dish soaps like Dawn or Joy being really
good and thorough at removing silicones and wax.
They've never let me down.
If you wash your rag out with it I can't see how any could be left.
I would think after washing in the washer the mitt would be ok
but I don't know what else could have been in there. Maybe a static
thingee or some softener? I don't know.
Wax and grease remover should remedy the situation.
But few use it right, and sometimes they do more harm than good by
smearing the contamination to more places.
I like to spray it on with a bottle and wipe it off with a clean towel.
I even use paper towels, but the key is to keep using fresh ones.
And if you spray it you have to allow more dry time and blow off the
surface with air. The W&G remover gets into little holes and stays wet
and gives problems. I had problems with that and went back to washing
with Dawn, drying w/ a clean towel. And usually drying until the next day.
Good luck on your quest, let us know if you pinpoint your problem.
And if you use Endust, don't spray it directly on the car-that can cause
a problem. :pimp:
 

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A one time trip in the washing machine will not get rid of the silicone.
A one time washing with 330 or any other solvent borne wax and grease remover will not remove all silicones, some it can take three to five times.
Also if plastic wash bucket the silicone will embed itself, just like it can in non stainless metal and core silicones can embed in stainless.

The silicone can get on your car just buy following a siliconed ride.
 

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Fishing

Wash Mit throw it away, Don't even think of armor-all in your shop ever,never ever, Wax and grease remover do an very good job of spreading the silicone around, equal opportunity to make the whole car Fishey yuk! Were the fans blowing on the suspect area? Spend your hard earned cash on a GOOD air filter for the compressor and don't try to cover the car in one trip, first apply a tack coat and if a small amount of nasty's are present you'll see them, stop, dry the base, scuff and re-shoot plus add a little Fish eye eliminator in your first couple coats. good luck to ya
 

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Drive it like a rental!
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Discussion Starter #13
fish eyes

Does the fish eye eliminator really work? What is it?

The bucket that I used was just an ice cream pail so there shouldn't have been any contaminates. I followed a post from MARTINSR about how to use the DX 330, I used one rag to put it on and several different clean rags to wipe it off before it dried. Barry, you said it may take 3 to 5 times with the wax and grease remover, how do you know how many?

I don't think it was in the air line or gun because I can see the wipe marks under the paint - like I spread the contaminates out with either the mit or the DX 330. Also, why didn't I have any problems with my primer? I think I added the contaminates when I prepped for final paint.
 

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The additive tries to even out surface tension, so it dries more evenly. Try contacting paint manafacturer for details, I'm sure there all little different.
 

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Drive it like a rental!
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Discussion Starter #16
fish eyes

OK, I think I solved the problem. I had the wash mit in the house and I realized that it was right next to a bottle of hand lotion, I am guessing that some lotion got on the mit!!

Whatever the cause is I have to fix it. Should I block sand the areas down, clean again (and again, and again, etc.), and repaint? The RR quarter is the worst so I will fix that first. I will ask my jobber about the fish eye eliminator and try it out. Is this something you guys use all of the time?

Thanks again for all of the great help, I would NOT have been able to do this without all of your advice!

Rick
 
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