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ford 351 w/c

7603 Views 16 Replies 14 Participants Last post by  Moby302
what is the differance in a 351 windsor and a 351 clevland and 351 modified
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all manufactured different years,I think. 1st was windsor then clevland, then modified, I herd alot of good things about the windsor.Used to be the clevland was the one you wanted.modified is to new,you used to be able to put windsor heads intake and exhaust on a 289 or 302,
The biggest difference is that the valves on the windsor are all in line(wedge),and the clevland & modified valves are on different angles to each other(canted).
Ford builds engines at different plants stiil to this day. They make Romeo engines, Windsor engines still. In '70 you had a 351W in a Cougar and a 351C in a Mustang. I think in 1970 you could actually get a 351 Windsor or Cleveland in the Mustang. Ford names its engines, usually from the plant they're made. And I had a mid seventees Cougar that had a 351M engine (it was a dog). I think they only had two M-series engines, a 351 and a 400. The Windsor line has probably been the most popular but I believe the Clevelands were originally liked because of there large valves. In fact in 1969 I believe was when Ford introduced the Boss 302 which was a 302W fitted with 351C heads. I guess Ford just couldn't keep it simple like Chevy.
Well, dmorris is right. The windsor family consists of the 260, 289, 302, and 351. This means that pretty much every part of the engines besides cylinder heads and intake manifold are interchangable. (depending on year) The 351 is in the same family as the 302 and others, meaning it uses the same parts, however, the block is just a little bit taller with a bigger deck height and main journals. Because it has a bigger block, it uses a wider intake manifold...but it looks the same. The heads would be identicle to all of them, except earlier 351 heads have bigger ports and valves, and all 351W heads use 1/2 inch head bolts whereas the 302 and other smaller windsors use 7/16. But it is possible to put 351 heads on a 302. But, you cant make a 351 with a 302 block. And dmorris said, they are all inline valve arrangements. There are many interchangable parts in the windsor family, so many its hard to keep track of, (and yes, years do matter) you'd probably need somebody who knows a lot or buy the book.
..The cleveland however, is a big block. In 1970 if you bought a mustang with a 351, there is no real way you could specify if it came with a cleveland or a windsor. It just depended if it came from the ontario plant or the cleveland plant. Because it is a big block it has bigger ports and valves with the canted arrangement. 351c's are good engines, i read the the 351 cleveland makes more power per cubic inch than any other gasoline american made v8 engine. I just dont know why they arent more popular. You cannot interchange 351 cleveland motor parts with any 351 windsor motor parts. Back in the day, clevland heads were the thing to have, now, you can just buy some aluminum race heads that outflow the clevelands and put them on the more popular windsor block (which is what most people do)
The 351m stands for 351 modified. It is basically, a modified 351c. Im not sure if you can interchange 351m/351c parts. They also made a 400m, wich is the same family as a 351m. These engines were usually put into trucks and i dont think were very good for performance use....i coud be wrong so dont take my word for it.
well thats what i have to say about that... hope i helped a little
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the 351m is actually a 400,good strong motors but very cold hearted-running better with shaved intake and heads-very low oil pressure stock.
the 351 cleveland are the better of the three along wit hthe old 360`s, very interchangeable,thermostat housing is in different location(slightly).
The 351 windsor is ok for a truck, your grannys car, just kidding, but it doesn`t interchange well with other parts, is prone to forming "hot spots" in my opinion, and is really intended only for stock usage
different pistons, made in different plants,and the different heads,canted valves, exhaust ports
depends on what you want to get out of it.most guys just opt for an older 302,because it is kind of hit and miss with the 351`s.
i had a 351clevland in a dirt track car. very easy horspower. very tuff. on last points race, a bumper went through the radiator finished the race with no water, all 5 laps. I wish i would have saved it. 351m-boat anchor. 351 w. good sound motor proven by years of production. too bad ford dosen't know a good thing when they have it.
hey guys i have a 351c with many 351m&400m parts for her im putting her in a 80 f100 p/u when i had the old 351c it was neet to see the 50s go down the drain my son had it in a rich neighborhood one boy looked over and saw a p/u and said hey country boy want a city boy to show you how to run my son has a short temper and told the kid first to next light when they took off my son thought he had lost it he said dad i was going to beat him or blow it up he ran it up to 6500rpms when he shifted into secound thats all she wrote for the 50 at the next light the 50 pulled in behind him my son with his long temper put his truck in park went to the 50 & told the kid if he wanted to come to the country & we would show him how to run that 50 the guys girlfriend said finaly got beat and by a country boy on top of it for this reason ill stay with my 351c may take more time but ill have fun & a family truck also cheap on gas gordo
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one more time ford 221,260,289,302,351 Windsor engines are manufactured in windsor ontario canada these are in effect ford smallblocks good engines with a superb oiling system and poor cylinder head ports every thing will interchange with the exception of the 351w crank journals are larger the block is a half inch taller and bolt are larger intake manifolds are wider camshafts had different fireing order in earlier models but cams will interchange provided you use the correct order for that cam oil pans are different boss302 351C and 351m and 400s are made in cleveland ohio all cylinder heads will interchange the oil system is weak the cblock is smaller and lighter pistons between 351c and the 400 interchange but the 351m won't(yes the 351m is 351 cid)intake manifolds between the C and M won't swap but cams oilpumps time gears(not chains)exhaust manifolds will cranks won't rods no trannys won't between C and M trannys between the 429/460 fit the 351m400s trannys for windsors fit the 351C, then there are hybrids called clevors and strokers where certain parts of different engine familys are combined to make somthing different from what ford offered
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Hey Tom are we keepin' you busy? :D You're right, I remember you posting most of this information on a previous post. But I must admit since I'm not planning on building any hybrids I forgot most of it after I read it. I think it was on a post about swapping modified and cleveland parts. You should just copy that info and then just enter it when needed. While I have your attention (if you read this) if you could refer to post 302 comeback, with your history of Ford engines maybe you have an answer.
Did anyone mention that a winsor with aussie cleveland heads on it was called a clevor 351...or did i read to fast and miss it.
In 1970 if you ordered a 351 4bbl it was a Cleveland, '69 was the only year they made the 351W 4bbl, if you ordered a 2 bbl then it could have been either.

[ January 05, 2003: Message edited by: woodz428 ]</p>
I found an article the other day in one of my mag's that showed basically how to put 351-C head's on a 351-W block. I didn't believe it at first. Didn't think it would be possable. But the article went on to say that after "a few" modification's one could expect up to a 100 h.p. gain from their old 351-W.
351-C also seem to be extremely hard to find around here, (TN). However 351-W run amuck, amuck, amuck..... I've been looking for a friend who want's one for his stang. I'm a 302 man myself.... Don't laugh! It ain't funny....
Been putting Cleveland heads on Windsors since the early seventies (Ford even showed how to do it in one of their Hi-Po parts books,O.H.O, I think), but with the development of all the Windsor heads it isn't justifiable unless you want to build a Bogus Boss engine, but HP wise you can get more,cheaper, with the newer heads.
Windsor valve covers have 6 bolts, Cleveland's have 8. :D
Uh, nope, guess you wanted performance difference.
Seriously tho', what was the best year for the Cleveland 351, and what about the Aussie cleveland heads, any opinions on them.
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