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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm looking since quite some time
now :spank: ... to change the engine in my car,

Currently TransAm 84 - 350 - 420HP + 150HP nitrous
3400/3500lbs car i guess..

Im interested in a supercharged engine but as well
as a naturaly aspirated one...

I dont know very mutch how mutch power i can get from
a supercharger engine since its new for me.. So i have
found lot of engine info etc.. But i'm still unsure about what
to do...

First i have around 10k to spend but not very more.. i'm pretty limited, its already $$ for me :)


Choice 1 : 454 SBC hardcore 600hp (wolrdproduct)

Pretty simple, in my price range, ready to run, then i will add onto it a 150-250 cheater NOS plate kit on it... (i already have this kit on my current engine)



Choice 2 : 383/ 8.0-1 - Vortech supercharger (V1T-trim 73% eff. up to 800HP)

Have to build the engine (i like so noprob), have to learn about supercharger, will add nitrous later on it too..



Choice 2 : 400sbc (bored to 406 may be)stock gm/ 8.5-1 - Vortech supercharger (V1T-trim 73% eff. up to 800HP)

Have to build the engine (i like so noprob), have to learn about supercharger, will add nitrous later on it too..


(i have already a 350 4 bolt block in hand , and i can have a 400 block for aroud 250$ stock bore). For sure i will put 4340 crank etc.. may be a scat light rotating assembly whit good head etc on the 383 or the 400..

This engine running street to track on pump gas 91 oct...
Whit Nos additive when racing on 1/4m track.

What your choice would be ?

What kind of HP i can expect whit a supercharger on a 383 or a 400 ?

And sorry for my english..:smash:
 

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Well I will try to make this as simple as possible. Getting 800HP out of a small block on pump gas is not going to be all that simple.

You best bet is to build/buy the biggest engine you can afford and go from there. Since this is a street car it makes even more sense to build or buy a larger engine even if you are going to supercharge it. In order to get there with a small block (which can be done) you are going to lose some reliability. If you do shoose to go with aq small block build the largest one you can.


Running nitrous and a supercharger/blower on 91 octane will be a challenge to say the least.

Run an intercooler with your supercharger and that will help you reach your goal as well.

Royce
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
camaroman7d said:
Well I will try to make this as simple as possible. Getting 800HP out of a small block on pump gas is not going to be all that simple. You best bet is to build/buy the biggest engine you can afford and go from there. Since this is a street car it makes even more sense to build or buy a larger engine even if you are going to supercharge it. In order to get there with a small block (which can be done) you are going to lose some reliability. If you do shoose to go with aq small block build the largest one you can.
Running nitrous and a supercharger/blower on 91 octane will be a challenge to say the least.

Run an intercooler with your supercharger and that will help you reach your goal as well.
Royce
When i run nitrous i use additive that put the octane to around 98, that help.

But whit the 454sbc , this one is 600hp whithout a supercharger, since its 10.5.1 compresion i can't put a superchargher on it i think anyway, but its pure 600HP on 91 oct. gas..

So you suggest to go whit the supercharger, but does it will have very noticeable difference bettewn a 383 or a 400 ? What kind of HP i can expect ? I have read around 30HP by 1psi of boost ? is this right ? And how mutch boost i can run ? some tell 6-7psi other tell 10, are you running on pump gas, how mutch psi you run ??, on pump gas (or may be bettwen 91-98oct)..

Assuming a 383 well build, alu head etc. can put 4xx HP under 10.5-1, they will loose some HP droping to 8.1, if i use 30hp x 6psi = 180hp that was not too mutch.. I'm not sure if 30hp by psi is a good calculation. ?

Streetability is at minimum , i use my car to ride sometime on the city then to the track.. a ruff idle dont botter me as well as fuel economy.

As for and intercooler i have to find some place to put it in my car .. outch not too mutch space..
 

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i think it may be a little difficult to build a supercharged motor on $10,000. You are looking at $3000-$4000 for the supercharger alone. To get the hp you are looking for, for the price you are working with, a strong small block with nitrous may be the easiest way. It is going to come down to heads. If you want a chance at it, put your money in a good set of heads. One other idea is to look for a motor that is already built that is being sold. You can often save quite a bit of money this way. Of course, you have to be carefull about bad parts though. I will keep my eyes open for good pump gas combonations and post any I find on here. the amount of hp you will get with a supercharger varies with how much hp your motor makes without the supercharger and how much boost you run. You can go off of percentages usually around a 50% gain with 8-10 lbs of boost.

Adam
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
firestone said:
i think it may be a little difficult to build a supercharged motor on $10,000. You are looking at $3000-$4000 for the supercharger alone. To get the hp you are looking for, for the price you are working with, a strong small block with nitrous may be the easiest way. It is going to come down to heads. If you want a chance at it, put your money in a good set of heads. One other idea is to look for a motor that is already built that is being sold. You can often save quite a bit of money this way. Of course, you have to be carefull about bad parts though. I will keep my eyes open for good pump gas combonations and post any I find on here. the amount of hp you will get with a supercharger varies with how much hp your motor makes without the supercharger and how much boost you run. You can go off of percentages usually around a 50% gain with 8-10 lbs of boost.

Adam
unfortunatly my budget is limited :sweat:

2700$ for the vortech unit not too bad...

btw is 8 - 10 lbs doable on pump gas ?
50% gain on 400HP so this mean = 200hp / around if i start whit a 383 or 400 will be pretty simillar i guess..
 

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If you can make it work for the money you have, then do it. As far as pump gas goes, it all depends on what the compression of the motor is. I you have a 10:1 compression and run 10 lbs of boost that will not run on pump gas. But if you build it at 8.5:1 and run 10-12 lbs of boost that will run on pump gas if you also have aluminum heads. One thing to remember is that if you build a 383 or 400 that has 8.5:1 compression, it will be impossible to get 600 hp out of it on pump gas without a supercharger which is what you would need in order for a 50 % gain to get you 800 hp. Something you can do to get the motor to make some more hp is to drop the compression really low and run more boost. This may work, but then I am not sure if your supercharger could support the extra boost. If you built a 406 at 7.5:1 compression, and ran 18 lbs of boost, you would probably be get into the 750 range, but again you will have to have a really good set of heads and mabye a bigger more expensive supercharger. As far as heads go, I would recommend the AFR 195cc heads on a 383 and the 210cc heads on a 406. With anything less than the street ported AFR heads, you will not be able to get the power you are looking for with the kind of combonation we are considering. Those heads are $1300 a set CNC ported. I will try to answer any other questions you might have, good luck

Adam


Here is a website that can answer alot of your questions.

http://www.procharger.com/pdf/Chevy.Prod.bb.pdf
 

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Buy a performance crate 454 and add a 6-71 blower set up with carbs. You should be able to stay under 10 grand and make 750 reliable horsepower.


Of course, you could get a 454 core and go though it, add a set of performance heads, a blower cam, blower pistons, and of course the blower kit, and make buku power on a shoe string. I wouldn't even see any problem with a 2 bolt block.

You could get this done for less than 7 grand, and make big, easy ponies under 5500 RPM.


Brian
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
Firestone : Thanks !! This will help me to understand more about supercharger ! I have read at 7.5.1 i may have problem on the street , can you bring me some info on this ?

ps: as vortech say, the vortech unit can support 26lbs of boost up to 825hp , there is another unit that can goes to UP to 1200HP.

NAIRB :

Can i put a blower on a 10.5.1 engine, if i understand whit this
comp ratio i will have a minimal boost ..no ?http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/products/units

firestone said:

Adam


Here is a website that can answer alot of your questions.

http://www.procharger.com/pdf/Chevy.Prod.bb.pdf

NICE Link !!! thanks !
some reading here :D
 

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x007 said:
Firestone : Thanks !! This will help me to understand more about supercharger ! I have read at 7.5.1 i may have problem on the street , can you bring me some info on this ?

ps: as vortech say, the vortech unit can support 26lbs of boost up to 825hp , there is another unit that can goes to UP to 1200HP.

NAIRB :

Can i put a blower on a 10.5.1 engine, if i understand whit this
comp ratio i will have a minimal boost ..no ?http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com/products/units




NICE Link !!! thanks !
some reading here :D
No because you cant run enough boost to make a difference at 10.5:1. At 8pounds of boost that would give you a effective comp. ratio of something like 16.2 or so where at 8.5:1 thats only around 13.3 effective comp. ratio.

Stickman said:
Well, if your cap wasn't 10 grand, and you weren't dead-set on Chevy, you could always use the 4 magic words to get your 800 ponies on pump gas...

"Chrysler hemi plus nitrous" ;)
Get a 610HP 528 for roughly 15 grand and then $800 or so for a 400+HP N20 system and go to town lol.
 

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i am not sure if you will have any problems with 7.5:1 on the street, that may be a good question for the people at vortech or procharger.

here is another idea that would get you around 800 hp if you dont have to worry about emmissions or anything.

BBC 496 4 bolt steel center caps, Eagle 4340 steel 4.25" crank, Eagle ESP 6.385" rods, SRP 43cc dome pistons, Sealed Power file fit rings, flat tappet cam, double roller timing set, internally balanced, SFI Fluidamper balancer and SFI flywheel

(i am sure you can get whatever compression you want, these short blocks are made to order)

$3499 from Revolutionary Performance(short block)
$400 added for a hyd roller cam.
$3000 for AFR 315cc CNC ported BBC heads
$300 Victor series race manifold
$700 holley hp 950 carb
$300 comp cams pro magnum roller rockers
$120 magnum push rods
$300 milodon oil pan kit
$250 MDS pro billet distributor
$100 spark plug wires
$200 misc gaskets
$50 spark plugs
$280 GMPP performance valve covers

All this comes to $9500

with 10.5:1 compression, and a matched hydraulic roller cam, this motor would make a good 700 hp. With a matched mechanical roller cam , It would be close to 750hp. If that wasent enough, you could always add a 100 shot to get you where you want to be. I probably missed something in the pricing, but I think I was pretty thorough.

just another idea
Adam

Adam
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
firestone said:


All this comes to $9500

with 10.5:1 compression, and a matched hydraulic roller cam, this motor would make a good 700 hp. With a matched mechanical roller cam , It would be close to 750hp. If that wasent enough, you could always add a 100 shot to get you where you want to be. I probably missed something in the pricing, but I think I was pretty thorough.

just another idea
Adam

Adam
Thanks adam,

But i want to stay on SBC :D
If i put a BBC on my TA i will have to change header,support etc..
This is again money & lot of change to do, i want to avoid that...

I will contact procharger today to have some more info....
I have read a bit the link (procharger stuff pdf) and they tell whit a 10.5 engine & intercoller as i see i can run whit 8psi whit an intercooler... So this is pretty interesting.. (page 24) i will contact procharger to have a bit more info on that... AS well as what can i expect whit a 7.5 comp. ratio on street.

Currently my 350 .030 are a 10.5.1 may be i can try putting procharger/intercooler and run 8psi on it, that would be nice.. My current engine have forged crank/piston whit Edelbroock alum. head.. So this could be interesting may be.. :)
 

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Honestly, if you can afford 10k to build a small block, you should budget for appropriate additives, or alternative fuels (alc. or pump and av-gas mix). I think it's a real mistake to try and build something to run on pump gas at those horsepower levels. Anyway, at the rate this thing is going to be trying to tear itself apart, you won't be putting that many miles on it, so fuel expense shouldn't be the big concern. Personally, if I were building a rod right now, I'd shoot for between 450 and 500 ponies, and make sure the bottom end is tight enough to dump a 200 horse nitrous charge through it without significant wear. That'd be good for 650 to 700 HP, and is probably more than enough for anybody driving on the street...and it can be done with a naturally aspirated engine for somewhat less than 10 grand:)

I'm not trying to change your mind, just offering my opinion.
 

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On a 10 grand budget,
If you can squeeze a big block in that car, I would go this route.

http://www.ultrastreet.net/598_755_engine.asp

This would be super reliable and make awesome HP and torque.
I am considering one of these for my chevelle.

You'll have to shop for pulleys and brackets. But trany and engine mounts I believe will fit.

:smash: :thumbup:
 

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With that budget you should be able to make the power you want. Like most are telling you, a supercharger is the way to go. You are going to want CR as low as possible and 7.5:1 should not be an issue if you dont go too wild on the cam. Even larger blower cams are going to have a wide lsa which will help with cylinder pressure in the low RPM where the low CR will cause problems. There are some smog engines that where 7.8:1 from the factory in the 80's, I believe.

Chris
 

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800hp sure is fun for talk sake, but in all relality its not very practical. Sure 800hp is easy to say and we can all sit here all day and give you suggestions to reach 800hp. But As HP go's up things start breaking, Rear end, transmission, frame...... the list go's on. If your limited on money, I would like to suggest or at least have you consider building a 600hp motor and setting up the car to handle it. A 600hp car can be made faster then a car thats not setup to handle an 800hp motor.

I took my Datsun240z with a 6-71 Blower, I kept building it so radical and for so much power it got to the point to where it just was as much fun to drive on the street. Im not trying to change your mind in any way just point out that sometimes 600hp makes a better street warrior then an 800hp car and since you have limited funds, may be a better choice for you.


Ben
 

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Do it man. Don't listen to reason. Build the biggest honking BB you can afford and burn rubber. There's quite a few reasons for not doing it, but they don't matter. The one and only reason for doing it outweighs them.

800hp is more than 500hp, it's that simple.

Big block and nitrous would be the easiest way to go. It's harder on the pistons and rod bearings than a supercharger though.

A new 454 plus pistons, cam, and a Vortech carbed blower would work well too. If you can squeeze an intercooler into the budget you'll have the equipment to make 900hp. It's a takes a whole heap more space under the hood but once it's done, it's done.

Larry
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
Its started i cant change my mind now lol :D
I have just ordered an Ati procharger D1SC 12rib Whit an intercooler;

unit 2800$
intercooler 1250$

I will give a try on it whit my current engine, i will see what this would give.. Its apear on 91 oct gas i can run a 8psi on a 10.5.1 engine.. So i will give a try whit my current 420hp engine, if its not enough i guess i will build a 383 whit 8.1 to push more boost.. I already have a 4bolt block here so if needed..

btw My car can handle the power no prob, i run already whit 420HP + 150 progressive Nitrous on this engine ;

rear is 3.73 12 bolt Moser / Wilwood disk brake
TCI Turbo 350 / 3500 stall
Precision shaft Alum. (up to 1200HP)
QA1 shock / aftermarker tork arm etc.
6 point Roll bar

Cannot wait to install this supercharger lol :D
 

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Its apear on 91 oct gas i can run a 8psi on a 10.5.1 engine..

I don't believe you

The math doesn't work.

10.5 is pushing the envolope if not the limit already, add the cylinder pressure from 8 psi and I can't see it happening. Unless you gas pumps are pumping methanol or nitromethane. :mwink:
 

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johnsongrass1 said:
I don't believe you

The math doesn't work.

10.5 is pushing the envolope if not the limit already, add the cylinder pressure from 8 psi and I can't see it happening. Unless you gas pumps are pumping methanol or nitromethane. :mwink:
I was thinking the same thing when i read that. Also remember that just because you have a 420hp motor now with 150shot of nos doesnt mean its making a true 570hp. Even if you are you will still need to make adjustments and changes for 800hp, thats a big jump in power.
 
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