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grrrr...need some thoughts.

794 Views 6 Replies 3 Participants Last post by  vettedreams2001
started the elky up this morning, i went out to get a fixit ticket signed off. Started it up again drove around the corner to pay my 10$ fee. Came outta the courthouse and it wanted to start for half a second then nothing at all. Went home got a spare battery hooked it up and nothing. Even the solinoid didnt click... So i got it pushed out of my parking spot and had it push started (popped the clutch in 2nd and off i went home). Okay, now im home.... Pulled the starter out went down to kragen's and bought a brand new one. Put the new one in and didn't notice I had the terminals touching after tightening up the connections on the solinoid...... So i connect the battery (terminals still shorted) off comes a lil smoke from the battery post!!! oh hell....cant get the terminal off the post.. it stayed like that for a good 20 seconds b4 I was finally able to get the positive unhooked. Starter was clicking every now and then when I was jiggling the power wire around to get it off the post. :boxing: after that I redid the starter and got the wires un-shorted. Everything good to go right? nope..

I put in my key turn it, and nothing from the starter...
Both accessory and on position turn my stereo on, but not fully like it is supposed to (no illumination, no text, no play, just red power light that does nothing when pushed now), but when i turn it to the off position the stereo lights up like normal and says goodbye like normal...
I'm thinking I may have caused the starter to permanently short out or something or another. I need to get this fixed asap, I gotta get to work on Friday....don't wanna get fired.

The main fuse maxi-link or whatever its called is still good, its not blown, none of the interior fuse box fuses are blown.
Ive taken out my ignition switch and went straight to the source of "hot wiring" it .... that did nothing as well.
I had to come inside I was freezing my huevos off.... I'll get back to it tomorrow with some of the ideas I get here.
grrrr. there's always somethin or another biting me in the ***. :spank:
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Doc here, :pimp:

If your sure the fuse link is good (and there are usually more than one..) you must have melted a connection on the SWITCHED Ignition support buss..(the other 10 ga red wire coming off the starter big bolt wire..) Inspect that wire carefully.

Sounds like only the unswitched and ACC support busses are still working, but not the SWITCHED buss. This would have burned out when you shorted the starter. The stereo would work partially because it had memory power but no main power..( the red light, and "Goodbye") in RUN.

You may have suffered a burned out NSS when it all first began, making the starter not work, and exasperated the problem after the short..OR it could be the Ignition switch is failing..(dirty or pitted contacts)

Did you say you tried to jump the "S" and big bolt wire and it had no effect? If so, and you got the right two wires, (not the "I" terminal) then it may be the cables are shot, or the ground is missing from the battery to the block to the frame.

Check your battery cables first, then the support buss wire, from the starter to the Fuse buss, Be sure your block, Frame and firewall has a good ground, Then, get a DVOM and take measurements on the "S" wire in start for 12 volts, and the "Batt " Wire on the HEI for 12 volts in the "run" position.

IF you have no power, and the wire and links are good, I'd suspect the fuse buss has a wire at the switched buss bar (rear of fuse block) that has cracked or burned off the fuse leg.

IF all is good, and it still won't crank, the solenoid is the only suspect left..

Doc :pimp:
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thanks doc, still got the problem but slightly different now.
What i did today was:
Took the starter back out, tested it on my battery...i couldnt get a good ground bench testing it....So i took it down to kragen's and had them put it in their machine and test it, starter is still good as new.

Traced my wires, they look alright didnt notice anything melted/burned/open wires.

I replaced the entire 10gauge wire from the big post on the sol. to the maxi-fuse. But before hooking it up to the starter i hooked it straight to the battery. My stereo turned on and worked and all seemed well so i went ahead and hooked the starter up and bolted it in. Now it got somewhat better (stereo illumination comes on from power being connected but text is very very very dim and no responce from pushed buttons. I got some new battery cable post clamps to replace the ones i have atm, i dont like the current ones they look like a press to fit type and probably have a horrible connection and are bunking things up some. So I'm gonna go hook the new ones up and see if I get more juice. If that dont work im just gonna go ahead and rewire the rest continuing from the maxifuse to the ignition switch.
I still havent gotten a multimeter yet, so I'm gettin by with one of those dummy tester lights.. turns on if ya got power to the wire.... I feel like a caveman lol.

:rolleyes: dislikes murphy's law.

thanks again doc :pimp:

just came in to say.... im retarted.
One of the big 3 was taking a smoke break..... those push to connect battery cable clamps i was sayin looked shabby to me..... well i hooked up the good clamps and whaddaya know....power to everything, starter engauges (didnt start it up, header and plug wires are disconnected) the ground clamp was the culprit. well..... I needed to replace that starter anyway it was on its last legs half a year ago.

I'm gonna go back out and finish puttin stuff back where its supposed to be, I got interior wires all over the floor and the header to wrestle back into place.

edit #2 :
Got it all put back together and it fired up. Only thing my accessory position act's like off position now, I probably missed a wire under the dash somewhere...small chore for another day (got frustrated) as long as the main part works its good to go.....I dont use anything while my cars off or on accesory position anyway so no biggie to me for now.
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Doc here, :pimp:

Good to hear you found the main problem, Those "side by side " connectors are no good, Don't use them! Solder wherever you can, and if not , use at least Barrel Crimp terminals.

Doc :pimp:
Well, I went out to the garage for 15 min. today and figured out my no accessory problem and hesitant startup (it would start but only after a few tries)..... the painless or whatever wiring kit that I got in it the labeling on the wires was tricky to read.... and I had the ignition wire and accessory wire mixed up. I noticed when I was foolin with the distributor and the pink wire was starin me in the eyes, I switched them on my ignition switch and boom. fires up within 2 seconds and my accessory position works now.

I found 2 pics on google ( never mind the text on the 1st image its from whoever uploaded it) the first one is the press to fit type of battery terminal that was causing my trouble all along.. the second one is the beter kind I switched to. The ptc ones (factory made? idk...) I dont really care for them after this...It seems like vibrations, wear and tear from pulling the cables off the posts would eventually cause the connection to become loose, looks like people would have thought about that b4 making them....


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Doc here, :pimp:

You'll find the type you went with will require CONSTANT tightening of the wire hold down and be subject to more advised..

I advocate an internal type of crimp connector that is like the original , you install..the catch is you need a Nicopress to install it correctly..This you can find at a good Electrical contractor, or home depot, (let them install them..) for the best connection.

The aftermarket stuff is mostly crap..after all.. how would they keep up the payments on the Beamer , if you didn't buy battery cables?? :mad:

Doc :pimp:
Somewhat off topic

A funny story of mine, well funny now. My mother-in-law has a 68 gto and she was having problems with it, well I am her go to guy because everyone else charges money. Well, she lives in Texas and I live in Illinois, so for Thanksgiving when we drove down there I got started working on it....after a 16 hour trip mind you. Well when I tried to start it, nothing at all, I figured it had been sitting for a couple months and the battery was dead, so I pull the truck up and tried jump starting it. When it didn't do anything I found that the positive cable had heated up and let the smoke out in an aluminum holder next to the exhaust manifold. Well after buying new cables and running them the proper way, also the car sat on in a small gravel driveway where the neighborhood cats used it as a giant kitty litter box, the gravel doesn't support the weight of the car on a jack too well either, Indiana Jones style up watching it sink....from under the car. Back to the story, After I hooked everything back up I was reconnecting the battery and as soon as I touched the negative cable I was arc welding. So I figured that something was touching down at the starter, but when I pulled the start down again it was fine, so I took the starter in to have them test it and it was still good, so I shoved it back up there and tried again, once again, pretty blue sparks. Finally I get two mirrors and a flashlight to see what's going on (you need that equipment when there are so many heat shields and random material protecting every little thing from everything else) and found that the positive cable on the starter was slightly turned and when bolted back up it slightly touched the block. Needless to say it was one of those DUH moments.
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