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Discussion Starter #1
I need a little advice on painting pearls. I know you can mix it with paint or intermediate clear or your final clear. But I'm just doing a ghost flame. I've heard of just using your reducer mixed with your pearls sprayed real lightly will give you this effect then wait until dry, untape and clear entire job. Is this true.
 

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Think about it ,will the pearl stick to the surface if you poured it on because thats what just adding reducer is like when it evaporates ....what you need is a binder (think of it as a glue) to make it stick...Using a clear (either one) works because it has the binder in it..using an inter clear is just better because it dries faster with less chance of getting a run
 

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What paint system are you using? Most have a clear binder (clear basecoat) that is used for this purpose or you could probably use clear without hardner (would dry quick). There are also clear adhesion promotors too. Many options, but just using reducer will not allow the pearl to stick.
 

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shake it !

sometimes it will sink to the bottom of your cup. I put a couple new CLEAN nuts in the paint cup and shake your gun like using a rattle can. then spray. repeat the shake every once in a while to get a consistant coat.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I'm using a urethane base coat clear coat system. If you didn't add the hardener wouldn't the clear stay tacky? I'm just not experienced with using pearls and its not an important job. It's just a golf cart for a guy that wanted something different. I didn't have any inner coat clear on hand and was seeing if there was another opition. I see what y'all are saying though. I was just thinking cause it was so small I could spray the pearls with the reducer unmask and have clear on hand ready to spray and spray fast. But if I need it I will order the inner coat clear. Any other suggestions? Thanks for the help guys.
 

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Use some thinned clear without hardner. Some people do this all the time for an inner coat. It will dry quick - and it will not be tacky when it is dry.
 

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Use some thinned clear without hardner. Some people do this all the time for an inner coat. It will dry quick - and it will not be tacky when it is dry.
Be very careful using this method...it could very easily wrinkle on you when you but a catalyzed clear over top...I'm glad your trying a test panel.

The proper way to shot a mid coat pearl for ghost flames is to use an intercoat clear (mid-coat clear)...it's basically a clear binder that is reduced like regular base coat...Mitmak is correct...DBC500 is PPG's Deltron mid coat clear and works well with PPG. I would not use it over another manufacturer's product, adhesion would be my concern...some people may say that they have done it and it works...good for them...if it doesn't, can you go back to the guy that never had a problem and get your money back...NO. Check with whatever manufacturer's product your using for a mid coat clear and use that. Any other product your asking for trouble.

Ray
 

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Below is a link to a hood that I did for a 1972 C 10 Chevy truck, using PPG's Deltron products...The base color is a blue metallic, the ghost flames are 7 shades of blue blended together with my air brush. For the mid coat I used Deltron DBC 500 with an transparent Orange in it and applied it over the blue base. The entire truck had 5 coats of clear and was then cut and buffed.

That is the correct way to do, ghost flames, if you use pearls in a catalyzed clear for your mid coat, your asking for something to go wrong...and generally when you do, something will go wrong...as Mike (deadbodyman) said...runs. Repairibilty using a catalyzed or un-catalyzed clear as mid coat coat is extremely difficult or next to impossible.

Hood Only
087 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Ray
 

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Be very careful using this method...it could very easily wrinkle on you when you but a catalyzed clear over top...I'm glad your trying a test panel.

The proper way to shot a mid coat pearl for ghost flames is to use an intercoat clear (mid-coat clear)...it's basically a clear binder that is reduced like regular base coat...Mitmak is correct...DBC500 is PPG's Deltron mid coat clear and works well with PPG. I would not use it over another manufacturer's product, adhesion would be my concern...some people may say that they have done it and it works...good for them...if it doesn't, can you go back to the guy that never had a problem and get your money back...NO. Check with whatever manufacturer's product your using for a mid coat clear and use that. Any other product your asking for trouble.

Ray
+1
Don't mix brands, and don't try to topcoat uncatylised topcoat, with catyilised topcoat.
If you want to mix pearl in your clearcoat, Go for it, but mix the clear as per directions in the TDS. Then just topcoat with clear as if it was another coat.
But for small areas, (flames, stripes etc.) best to use a clear base (binder) of the same brand as the rest of the system you're using.
 

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Your correct st3gamefarm, D895 is from PPG's Global line and the DBC 500 is from the PPG'S Deltron line. Both are solvent base coat, mid coat clears but should be used with either Global and or Deltron toners and pearls respectively and not intermixed.

This is the proper way...don't become a homemade chemist and mix one brand with another or one paint line with another, your asking for more headaches than you need to. It's hard enough to get acceptable results doing it right, why even think of getting acceptable results doing it wrong.

Good post st3gamefarm

Ray
 

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Below is a link to a hood that I did for a 1972 C 10 Chevy truck, using PPG's Deltron products...The base color is a blue metallic, the ghost flames are 7 shades of blue blended together with my air brush. For the mid coat I used Deltron DBC 500 with an transparent Orange in it and applied it over the blue base. The entire truck had 5 coats of clear and was then cut and buffed.

That is the correct way to do, ghost flames, if you use pearls in a catalyzed clear for your mid coat, your asking for something to go wrong...and generally when you do, something will go wrong...as Mike (deadbodyman) said...runs. Repairibilty using a catalyzed or un-catalyzed clear as mid coat coat is extremely difficult or next to impossible.

Hood Only
087 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Ray
NICE work 69...:thumbup::thumbup:
Also ,Why would anyone want to take a chance using different brands of a clear system???it takes so much time to lay out flames and do a good looking job ...Do it right and do it once ,its easier AND better....I'd be more concernd about getting the flames layed out right,Thats where all the talent come in ...following directions is EZ...
Look at 69's hood ,see how both sides are exactly the same (symetrical) ...ask him how he got it like that ,thats MOST important...
 

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Thanks Mike...Getting Ghost Flames or any flames on a vehicle semetrical can be a challenge and your correct, that is the hardest part of doing flames. On the hood, because of the hood having the cowl induction (raised in the center), I used a combination of decals and laying the flames out free had. I had to cut the decal in half, so it would lay properly on the hood with minimal air pockets. In areas where the decal would not lay down (again because of the contours in the hood) I laid them out by hand. I spent hours using a tape measure to ensure that the flames where identical side to side. Only when I was satisfied that they where equal did I break out the air brush.

The Ghost flames on the hood where difficult but, the ghost flames on the side where even more so. They needed to be hand laid, as I could get a decal to match the type of flame on the hood and they had to be even side to side. If you noticed the flames on the hood don't have a beginning (No distinct flame line at the front of the hood, or at the front of both fenders). Being a tri coat color, the colors needed to be blended so the front of the fenders and hood where the same color as the rest of the truck. Now get this...the owner took the truck to a show, came back and wanted the flames on the hood to be painted on a tonneau cover he had just purchased...only the flames need to be larger...LOL. This is where documenting what you do comes in handy, I had all the color used (7 different shades of blue) for bending the Ghost Flames and the order I used them written down in my log book...If that hadn't been done, matching the fade from hood to tonneau cover would have been impossible.

Left Front Fender
016 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Right Front Fender
014 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Complete Truck Driver's Side
109 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!


When doing anything like this, it's tedious, time consuming and often mind numbing but, in the forefront of my mind what keeps me going is that when people look at my work, it's my signature. At car shows people never talk to the next guy and say"did you see that average body work and paint job", they always say "did you see that awesome paint" or "did you see that terrible paint". The cool thing is that you, as the Technician get to decide what people say about your work.

Ray
 

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I lay out one side of the hood with fine line tape then lay the masking paper over that and trace the pattern by rubbing it with a charcoal pencil that artists use.anywhere the tape is stands right out then I cut it it out making a decal out of the white masking paper I flip it over and use it to lay out the other side of the hood so both side are exactly the same....Then I use a repositionable spray glue (also available at the arts and crafts store) to stick the paper to the surface.....Same with the sides I make a decal with the masking paper then use it for both sides.That glue is fantastic stuff but it takes time ,lots of it...
I see guys lay out flames in a couple hours and it makes me sick ,takes me about a week....It takes me so long there aint no money in it for ME but I love doing it.
 

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Thanks again Mike...I did use the masking paper method from side to side and should have mentioned it...Sometimes what one person might feel is a given isn't a given to someone else. The masking paper method works well but, as you mentioned Mike, it is very time consuming and the attention to detail is critical. Measurements from side to side seem to be endless.

And your right, it's a labor of love. Sometimes when I'm done I hate to give the keys back to the owner...LOL.

Ray
 

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Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
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Have you guys ever tried Frisket Film? Frisket Film - Low Tack & Extra Tack: Grafix
I am no custom painter and have only done one flame job by whole life but used this stuff doing the flames on my son's Pinewood derby car. LOL, yeah that's right on a Pinewood derby car. Anyway, someone told me on a forum to give it a try and it worked like magic.

They have a crazy amount of sizes with large sheets for you to do the side of a semi truck trailer with.
http://www.grafixarts.com/images/company_assets/512F1C7F-0D64-4A5E-9D91-785DC064755F/FrisketFilmAvailability_39c2.PDF

Have you ever tried it? I am thinking it would work out pretty nice in custom painting.

Brian
 

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I've never tried it Brian...What I have done several times in the past and it has worked quite well is to use the same material that they use for stencils, lay out my flames and trace the flames on the back side of the stencil material (if you try this make sure you get the stencil material with the thin transparent paper backing), cut out the flames and apply to the other side (unfortunately on the truck with ghost flames I wasn't able to get the transparent paper backed material and needed to do the masking paper method).

Where do you get the Frisk Film?

Ray
 

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Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
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I've never tried it Brian...What I have done several times in the past and it has worked quite well is to use the same material that they use for stencils, lay out my flames and trace the flames on the back side of the stencil material (if you try this make sure you get the stencil material with the thin transparent paper backing), cut out the flames and apply to the other side (unfortunately on the truck with ghost flames I wasn't able to get the transparent paper backed material and needed to do the masking paper method).

Where do you get the Frisk Film?

Ray
I got it at a local art store but it was only 9x12 sheets (I was only doing a little Pinewood derby car after all) but that first link has the sources.

Brian
 
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