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Discussion Starter #1
Ok so ive shot hok orion silver on numerous occasions.. 9 out of 10 times it wrinkles up in places.(this has only happened to me with this specific paint). today i tried a bunch of different things such as different temp reducers... sealed with hok sealer... sealed with epoxy sealer.. dusted coats.. layed wet coats. warmer room temp.. cooler room temp.. i have no idea how to fix this or stop this from happening.. one thing is for sure though... i will never ever ever buy this garbage again.. someone give me some advice.. heres a pic.. this one wrinkle is huge.. if u look close u will see smaller ones..

 

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Problem Child,Hard Case
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Your just getting OLD bro. Hahahaha. Welcome to the club.
It's just Wet on Wet.Not enough flash between coats or the sealer ain't dry enough or you need a faster reducer.
Go ask Craig. :thumbup:
Craig
 

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Discussion Starter #3
i seem to have tried all of that.. idk what it is.. other hok metallics dont do this to me either.



Bee4Me said:
Your just getting OLD bro. Hahahaha. Welcome to the club.
It's just Wet on Wet.Not enough flash between coats or the sealer ain't dry enough or you need a faster reducer.
Go ask Craig. :thumbup:
Craig
 

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Problem Child,Hard Case
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I don't know either. Main reason I don't use HOK Silver. Might ask Jim C. aka mrcleaner6 at SPI's board too. Craig Fraser will know or at least give you "some" answer as to why it's wrinkling,but MY experience is,it's just still TOO wet.I've learned the HARD way with Silver and giving it a L-O-N-G flash time,even with Chromabase before recoating or followed with kandy,which is even worse. :pain:
It's GOT to be wet'er to flow out right and that = longer flash time.
 

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Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
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It can also happen if the sealer is applied a little heavy in one area and hasn't flashed. The reason in a nut shell is solvents,period. So you have to find out, what is causing the sovlent to get under the substrate. If the "substrate" is the first coats of silver, what is causing it to get under that first coat? Is it that the coat is too thin in those areas and it has "kicked" being partially cured? Or is it too thick and the solvent is keeping it soft? One way or another solvent is getting under the substrate, what ever that "substrate" is.

Look over that area and find if it is a place that gets "double coated" like at the edge of a fender where it gets coated when you paint the door AND when you paint the fender. Those are prime areas for problems with solvents.

Look to see if in that area the substrate was sanded thin, that is another way solvents can get under the substrate.

One thing we know for sure, people paint that silver all over the country every single day, it can't be happening to all of them!


Brian
 

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Like they said "its all sealer"

Looks like to heavy in spots like a second quick coat in a spot to hide something is the most common reason.

SOME, sealers can do that with just one coat if you wait to long before applying the base also.

A true sealer is tight and does not breath good so its not made for filling a last minute flaw, you are always better off to either let the sealer set and sand out the minor flaw or sand the flaw out after a couple coats of base but never apply a second coat of sealer to that spot.

The size of wrinkle looks like there is a fair amount of sealer there.

Edit:
One other thing I just thought of as a lot of times this is the culprit.
Sealer should be applied with your base coat gun and I have seen a lot of problems like this where people would use a primer gun with a bigger tip to apply the sealer.
 

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My take is your probably spraying everything too heavy. That in turn increases the dry times and also loads on extra reducer when you base. Uncured substrate coated with reducer will always give you a lift. I know because I spray heavy too. So add some dry time or turn down the volume.

Also, this time of year seems to be the time for lifting issues. Watch your temps as a small drop in temp needs a big increase in dry time.

Larry
 

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hok orion silver is the only silver i spray for overalls, and custom jobs,.i have had it happened to me once and it was because i didnt give the sealer enough flash time,it wasnt cured enough, also i always spray light coats of the orion silver i never put it on to heavy. so some times it does have a rough texture, so when i get it covered i will let it dry completely go in with a piece of 800 and a water bottle sand the base lightly, very lightly , than put one nice dropcoat.i havent had a problem with it in quite a while, hok products are hot, so it is more of an issue to let it flash in between coats for a while, and as far as the sealer i will let sealer sit 2-3 hours sometimes depending on the temp. before i ever start spraying my base. hope this helps, mike.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
well its been sitting overnight now.. im going to go over there in a little bit resand it and see what happens.. Ive thought about a few things.. this car is a nissan skyline imported from japan.. it was repaint a candy blue before it was sent over.. i dont know what they use over there for paint.. one thing i do know it was a hack job.. I use a 1.4 for sealer and base. i did let all of the stuff flash and the spots arent in overlap areas.. i thought about that for a while. im going to let it sit for about an hour between coats and see how that works.
 

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Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
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It it was a "hack" job it may not have been sanded well. When you sanded it you could have sanded the previous paint/primer/sealer what ever down thin. Then your sealer wasn't as "hot" as the silver so it held it down ok. The sealer maybe wasn't totally cured, it was a little thin maybe and not a barrier. So the hotter solvents in the silver got thru to get UNDER the "hack" job because it wasn't sanded well and not adhering, allowing the solvent to get under it.

Brian
 

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My vote goes for spraying too heavy and not waiting long enough for the next coat. I had a very similar problem recently when I had to redo the doors on my 34. I had an almost identical spot like your photo appear at the top of one window opening. The resident paint guru took one look at it, told me to allow a little dry time then wet sand it out. Mist on a coat real light, wait about 20 to 30 minutes then mist on another light coat. Eventually I built up enough base to completely hide the repaired spot.

Vince
 

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Discussion Starter #13
thanks guys..i finished it up today.. i just waited about 45 minutes between coats and put them on really light. i will post finished pics within the next few days..
 

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Buick Hybrid Guy.
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If you've got a good prep'd surface of a existing paint job there is NO reason to use sealer!!!! Go direcly to basecoat!!!!!!
Sealer will only cause problems like you've been having and will have at least a 10% reduction of gloss in the clear.

If you break through sanding on the existing paint job your better to prime those areas and prep them than put a wet sealer down.

I spray Sikkens and HOK alot.

Your picture there says exactly what the others here stated. Not enough flash time/too cold temp or too heavy coats possbly all three.
On metallic's you've got a decent window so don't rush. Especialy if your not in a down draft booth that's heated. I had alot of problems spraying in a open floor. With the down draft booth I have now i've almost forgotten what it's like to have paint problems!

I feel like going back in there and spraying with out flash time but it realy will cost you more time rushing it.

Good luck,
Scott~
 

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Problem Child,Hard Case
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Thats true Scott but you should also know a lot of HOK scheams are using the sealer for a base coat or for the correct primer shade underneith.
I personaly hate the stuff and if I can come up with a way around it,I will every time. But yeah, colder weather painting is a time consuming ordeal some days. :(
Most painters try to follow the "directions" with their stuff and it WILL get you into trouble sometimes as like said above,their reducers are HOT and can really eat into substraits.

Just so's you won't feel so bad B here is some of my "better" work. Hehehehe.
This happened on the last coat of kandy. :pain:
 

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If you just simply don't want to use Orion silver anymore, X-otic has a similar (identical as far as I can tell) color called sparklee silver. Its what my jobber stocks so thats what I use ortherwise I have to order HOK. I have never had any problems with the X-otic, but then again never had any issues with the HOK either, my guess here is (assuming you did everything right) you have a big unknown with the previous paint job which was done off shore, who knows what was in it, Japanese fisheye remover? could be anything. How would it react with other paint? Your guess is as good as mine. AL.
 

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Buick Hybrid Guy.
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I think their silver sealer is neat... it does help save basecoat.

When you've got problems with it digging down and uplifting stuff it's never any fun :spank:

I tend to use a primer that's shaded close to the final color I'm going to use or make up a ground coat color that get's the entire car covered first then use the actual color that's going to be the final basecoat.

The only thing I seal is new bumpers or new sheet metal. If i've got time or if it's a project car I'll actually prime the parts... block them down and put them in basecoat. When I assemble them I'll sand the panel with 1000G and put on the final couple of base coats and clear it... :)

Temperature and air flow over the panels will either help or kill you every time.
Clean air is also a big factor..... I love these articles in Car Craft and Hot Rod.. "Paint your own car" I just laugh... knowing how many I've fixed that guys started and ended up in trouble. Not their fault... they just read a article and thought.. that looks easy! :nono:
I'll give them props for trying!!!!!!
Heck.. I get in trouble sometimes with ideal conditions and product... !!!!
For someone to do it at home your setup for disaster!
~Scott
 

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UR50SLO said:
I love these articles in Car Craft and Hot Rod.. "Paint your own car" I just laugh... knowing how many I've fixed that guys started and ended up in trouble. Not their fault... they just read a article and thought.. that looks easy! :nono:
I'll give them props for trying!!!!!!
Heck.. I get in trouble sometimes with ideal conditions and product... !!!!
For someone to do it at home your setup for disaster!
~Scott
Scott,
You must mean a first-timer?? Doing it at home?

If not there are a bunch of guys on here doing extremely high dollar work as we speak in their garages that most body shops could not match the quality of work we or they do.
302/Z28, Bondoking, Badbob, Atkart, Barryk and a whole bunch more.
Barry
 

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Buick Hybrid Guy.
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Yes... that's what I'm talking about... do it at home with little experience and expect show car results...

I'm not talking about guys that have knowldege and experience. I painted on the floor for years... I'm sure I'll pay for it with my health later on in life. Wet sanding and buffing will do wonders.

When you have a real booth it makes it nice to pull the job out and not have to take a coat of clear off color sanding and buffing.
This one came out of the booth like this:
87LX with a Buick GN engine in it.

One picture is where the car started out :)
~Scott
 

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BarryK said:
Scott,
You must mean a first-timer?? Doing it at home?

If not there are a bunch of guys on here doing extremely high dollar work as we speak in their garages that most body shops could not match the quality of work we or they do.
302/Z28, Bondoking, Badbob, Atkart, Barryk and a whole bunch more.
Barry
I would second that..I see a lot of work done by "amateurs" that meets or beats anything the "proshops" do..guess it has to do with being dedicated to doing a good job..

Sam
 
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