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:welcome: hey im new here ive had many o mustangs love em like i love my son lol but i have a question i like the boss 302 engine i have 3 mustangs but i got a new one i have a 1990 mustang gt and it has a c6 with 3500 stall and 373 gears full roll cage and the nice built in connectors underneath and i would like sum info well long story short i love to talk lol :drool: but anyhoos i got a 306 motor freshy rebuilt and a set of clevland heads wonder what to do like tips or trick if i can turn it into a boss engine i have a b303 cam will it work any suggestions or comments that are not rude will be greatly appreciated thnx guyz
 

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turbo lag......yeeeeehaaaaaaw
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Its called a clevor motor. You would need new pistons and a custom intake among many other things. But since you already have the short block I would get some good aftermarket heads. There was a thread on here if you surch for it they have a lot of info in there.
 

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Clevors are an old tech deal..There are lots of very good heads now for Fords and by the time one getss done building a clevor it is cheaper to just get the good heads..

Sam
 

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There's no way to make a Boss engine, it either is one or isn't. You can build a Clevor, which is as close as you can get.

Bolting a set of Cleveland heads on a standard Windsor can lead to disaster if you don't have the correct pistons or the coolant passages properly adapted.

Some more details on the 306 motor and what specific Cleveland heads you have would be helpful. I'll get into the cam later but it would be more helpful to post the specs instead of just a number.

I'm not saying these are great articles but they will give some visual reference to the process.

http://www.mustangandfords.com/techarticles/30220/
http://www.bacomatic.org/~dw/351x/351x.htm
http://www.darkhorseracing.net/clevor_head_mod.htm
 

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Troll Hunter
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I wouldn't try and do the work needed to sswap the Cleveland heads. They were great at one time, but most new aftermarket Windsor heads will out perform them. If you like the angle valve heads some of the FRPP heads are based on that design, but are far superior. As an after note, Ford has just announced that they are re-releasing the Boss 302 as a crate engine. Based on their modern components. It was reported that a crate Boss 302 with 350HP wil sell for about $4650. They will be offering other versions up to a 331 inch 500HP engine in the $10,000 range.
 

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All good responses.
If you are really into the Cleveland look, then you need the Australian heads that basicly have the 4 bbl. quench chamber and the smaller 2 bbl. intake port runners. Open chamber 2 bbl heads suck on a 302 as do poor velocity 4 bbl heads. Modern alum heads outflow any combination. The TFS Twisted Wedge heads or AFRs are the best IMO.

I suggest you look into the current ENGINE MASTERS magazine winter 2006 (sic) on the news-stands now for a 302 cube buildup that sports about 400 hp in a good streetable engine. (Winter 2006 ended LAST MARCH)
 

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aka Duke of URL
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woodz428 said:
As an after note, Ford has just announced that they are re-releasing the Boss 302 as a crate engine. Based on their modern components. It was reported that a crate Boss 302 with 350HP wil sell for about $4650. They will be offering other versions up to a 331 inch 500HP engine in the $10,000 range.
Uh...Are you sure the new engine is not a Modular instead of a Ninety-Degree?

You are scaring me here lately. You change the filters in your respirator frequently?

Personally, I would prefer the CLV heads over the new ones (especially if I had a set lying around.. But that is just me). You can even mount EFI on them now... :thumbup:
 

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No Gary, I'm not referring to that danged overgrown motorcycle engine. They may have announced it at SEMA, but it came through on our Cobra forum earlier this week. It is based on the Boss 302 block they started offering last year and will have the 4 bolt block (improved) and will use some of the canted valve aluminum heads.The mid $4000 range for a 350 HP Boss 302 engine sounds pretty good to me, although the 500HP 331 at 10gs is a little pricey. They are supposed to be available the first part of 2007...... What's a respirator??? :D
 

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Discussion Starter #11
boss :|

:drool: hey guys thanx for the comments and yAlls help but i bought a brang new 347 stroker motor :drool: :drool: so i got that under way and im looking into super chargers now thanx for the comments :>
 

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I would never advise building a 302 sized engine with 4V Cleveland heads for the STREET. I'm building a very low buck 331 Clevor myself that will use AU 302C 2V heads.

"If you like the angle valve heads some of the FRPP heads are based on that design, but are far superior."

FRPP?

On the bigger motors the CHIs (Clevors) are kicking tail at this years EMC.
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/enginemasters/challenge/2006/0610em_challenge_results_friday/

There is a new Boss crate engine on the horizon. The block looks good but I haven't seen any evidence of canted valve heads on the crate motor. All I've seen is an overpriced Windsor headed version trying to pass itself off as a genuine Boss. It's criminal in my opinion.
http://www.fordmuscle.com/blog/boss-302-engines-for-2007/112149
 

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aka Duke of URL
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Brian S said:
There is a new Boss crate engine on the horizon. The block looks good but I haven't seen any evidence of canted valve heads on the crate motor. All I've seen is an overpriced Windsor headed version trying to pass itself off as a genuine Boss. It's criminal in my opinion.

http://www.fordmuscle.com/blog/boss-302-engines-for-2007/112149
It seems to be mainly a recast of the actual block. As for heads;

Entry level engines feature the Ford Racing GT-40X Xtra Performance Turbo Swirl aluminum heads to retain stock exhaust locations and are rated at 340 and 345 hp. Higher performance versions include Ford Racing?s ?Z?-head equipped 302 and 347 cubic inch engines rated between 360 and 450 hp, depending on configuration.
It would cost FORD a fortune to retool and cast actual BOSS 302 cylinder heads and matching intake(s). I think the effort is to introduce a low-buck ($1759.00) strengthened block.

Upper BOSS 302 tech (along with CLV) is archaic to say the least. But one can be made to run and is a great conversation piece on SAT night.

To use the name BOSS 302 on this merchandising effort is in bad taste, but FORD is no longer FORD so you come to expect it.
 

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Just a few clarifications, I know that some are already aware. The term CLEVOR was created to signify CLEVeland heads on a windsOR block, taking advantage of both strong suits at the time. Cleveland heads flowed well and windsor blocks had a far better oiling system. On the new "Boss 302" crate engine I thought they were using one of the canted valve designs that they already supply since it retains stock exhaust pattern. That engine at the engine masters link looks as if it has canted valve heads also. There was at one time, I don't know how many were made, a CLEVOR block that used a Windsor oiling system but was designed to be a direct bolt on for Cleveland heads. I have never seen any except in Magazines, so not sure how many were made before the influx of aftermarket heads made them obsolete. As Gary said, the Cleveland top end is archaic now days and unless you just want a neat conversation piece it is a waste of a lot of money( for the average guy with our machine shop access) to create something that could be ourpowered by most aftermarket Windsor heads. Now many of the FRPP( as well as whoever else offers Angle valve heads) angle valve heads are designe with a threaded hole and come with a plug so they can be used on both blocks with no maching required. Those are the heads I think will be used. It of course is a Tragedy that the term "BOSS 302" is used.... but better on that one than the Mod motor they sell as a 5.0. :thumbup:
 

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woodz428 said:
Just a few clarifications, I know that some are already aware. The term CLEVOR was created to signify CLEVeland heads on a windsOR block, taking advantage of both strong suits at the time. Cleveland heads flowed well and windsor blocks had a far better oiling system.

There was at one time, I don't know how many were made, a CLEVOR block that used a Windsor oiling system but was designed to be a direct bolt on for Cleveland heads. I have never seen any except in Magazines, so not sure how many were made before the influx of aftermarket heads made them obsolete.
FORD MOTORSPORTS offered both a Windsor racing block and had special CLV style heads (and manifolds) to use in NASCAR and other forms of racing. YATES was one of the vendors. There were several series and I did not keep track as they were out of my price range... :eek:

It should also be mentioned that actual BOSS 302 cylinder heads are unique in that they can be bolted onto a NINETY-DEGREE (289/302) without machining (but must also have BOSS 302 intake) (will also fit 351W but no intake is available). The actual CLV heads (1970/ ) do require machining to go onto the afore mentioned blocks and require a unique aftermarket intake(s) or spacers. In addition, BOSS 302 heads also require machining to go onto the 351C block.

They (BOSS 302 and CLV) are actually two different systems. FORD borrowed the upcoming CLV design to graft onto the 302 for competition after the Tunnel Port 302's kept coming apart.
 

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You are farther ahead if you actually pick up the correct componants for the build. An actual correct block is well worth the money spent with the matching type heads and all that is involved with building a true BOSS engine.
Then there are no reasons why it should not perform as intended.
Worst case is you miss one of the cooling routes and then overheat the heads and your out $1200+ in materials.
Build it the way it was built from the begining.

And yes it will be spendy to build it like an original BOSS, but hey, then you can actually say you have one, instead of a who knows clone.

I just picked up the makings of a FE429 BOSS engine. It will cost me nearly $7500.00 to build the eingine correctly. The heads alone are close to $4500.00 in todays market. But it will be a true BOSS 429 SCJ.

Good luck

Maximo
 

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LordMaximo said:
You are farther ahead if you actually pick up the correct componants for the build. An actual correct block is well worth the money spent with the matching type heads and all that is involved with building a true BOSS engine.
Then there are no reasons why it should not perform as intended.
Worst case is you miss one of the cooling routes and then overheat the heads and your out $1200+ in materials.
Build it the way it was built from the begining.

And yes it will be spendy to build it like an original BOSS, but hey, then you can actually say you have one, instead of a who knows clone.

I just picked up the makings of a FE429 BOSS engine. It will cost me nearly $7500.00 to build the eingine correctly. The heads alone are close to $4500.00 in todays market. But it will be a true BOSS 429 SCJ.

Good luck

Maximo
The only difference between the Boss 302 and a garden variety is in the bottom end. The Top deck is the same, as Gary mentioned, it is the heads that are unique combining the porting and valve sizes( the '69 actually had a a little larger intake valve than either the '70 Boss or Cleveland engine) with a windsor deck configuration. I know, the block is unique, but not at the top. So any 289-302 and even 351W can have Boss 302 heads bolted right on. The 289/302 blocks can use a regular Boss intake and it can also be used on a 351W if spacers are made. R&C did a conversion in the late 60s early 70s. wasn't too complicated.

Now about that FE Boss 429, what are you talking about??? Boss 429s were based on the 385(429/460) block. The Cammer was based on the FE engine. :).
I had several friends that had Boss 302s. The 70s had a notorious piston breaking problem. Although they were made by TRW, they didn't have the same skirt design as the TRW replacement ones. The TRW pistons had the rounded skirt design and it was new enough they may not allowed them to be used in factory engines at the time, maybe Ford thought their skirt was O.K., I don't know the story on why. One friend replaced 2 or 3 with factory slugs and when the last one broke he replaced them all with the TRW ones. Never had a problem after that. That was only on a street car. So unless you are building a car that came with a Boss 302 and want it correct, the 37 years that have passed have brought about a lot of technology that makes a Boss 302 pale in comparison,so you are really wasting your money to build one as it originally was. One aspect to consider is HP ratings. The ratings of the era were taken without any ancillary components hooked up, ran dyno equal length headers, dyno cooling, used an outside air source and were optimized on the Dyno(jetting and timing). Modern engine HP ratings are taken with an engine just like it is plugged into the car, no trick headers, alternator and waterpump running and no outside air. So the 5.0 engine of the 80s and early 90s put out more real HP than the Boss.
 

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claycountystang said:
:drool: hey guys thanx for the comments and yAlls help but i bought a brang new 347 stroker motor :drool: :drool: so i got that under way and im looking into super chargers now thanx for the comments :>
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 

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aka Duke of URL
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woodz428 said:
So the 5.0 engine of the 80s and early 90s put out more real HP than the Boss.
Now hold on a moment here. The BOSS 302, the Z-28 and whatever the MOPAR and AMC offerings were made much more than the 290HP advertised (insurance reasons) and the parts were readily available to turn them up as far as you wanted to go.

These engines were released to make them legal for competition (TRANS-AM), not for actual street HP use.

Now if one wanted the ultimate SBF setup, look at the thumbnail;
 

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