Hot Rod Forum banner

1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
EFI Rules and Carbs Drool
Joined
·
919 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I see post all the time on boards and ads on ebay too that say a car was painted with 6, 8, 10 coats or more of this or that paint.

Huh? With the new paint today, do more coats of paint actually make it look any better? I put on 4 coats of yellow when I did my T bucket, but they were light coats and I had no runs. You could see through the second coat a little, the third would have been fine, but the fourth was just good insurance. Same with clear, you need enough to buff, but will it really look any better with 10 coats of clear? I used PPG DBC on the T Bucket and I'm going to use the same for the Mustang.
 
Joined
·
3,214 Posts
I am not a paint expert, but here is my take. The thicker the film build, the more prone to chipping.

You need as many coats of base as required to achieve full coverage of the undercoat. Once spraying the clear, it will depend on the clear used, and the finish. I have seen some clears that get cloudy when it gets too thick. It will also cause problems with adheasion if they are all sprayed at the same time. You can spray 2-3 coats, wetsand, and then spray 2-3 more coats. Wetsanding between the shooting steps will reduce the film build, remove dust nibs, and flatten the surface of orange and urethane peel.

Aaron
 

·
point on positive
Joined
·
1,680 Posts
I am a paint expert but what do i know? :D Remember a wet coat is 2 passes with the gun moving about 1 foot a second from about 8 inches away. so what some think is a coat is really a half coat...
if your not needing to buff then 2 coats or 4 passes is all thats needed. If you plan on buffing then add 2 more passes or a third full wet coat.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,071 Posts
No, The very slight difference extra coats of clear might make in depth wouldn't be worth the trade off IMO. This is from the lacquer days when you needed to put that many coats on. I guess to some it just sounds impressive for them to say it. I still laugh when someone says I want x amount coats of clear on the car. 2-3 is pretty much standard and plenty for buffing. Unless covering a lot of graphics where you might need it to cover tape edges, or flow coating where you sand down the clear and then reclear, any more then 2-3 coats of clear shouldn't needed or advised. And color is expensive enough, why would you want to put any more coats then you have to once you have coverage. It will just add mil thickness. You wan't to avoid too much mill thickness, which is why once a few paint jobs are on a car, it should be stripped.
 

·
point on positive
Joined
·
1,680 Posts
So , ,, base colors need to hide or cover and kandy bases are so translucent 3 to 20 passes may be needed to achieve the desired tone, and then the 2 or 3 wet coats of clear goes on top .

Hence the kandy bases need to go on in a super clean booth or environment since any dust or debris can't be "re-worked" like a regular base that can be sanded and re coated easily.
Thats why kandy paint jobs are frustrating man..

We need to be clear on how many base color coats are under how many coats of clear...lol pun intended
 

·
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
Joined
·
16,328 Posts
And don't forget that todays clears have as much solids as filling primers! They add a tremendous amount of film thickness with each coat.

Brian
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,591 Posts
Arrowhead said:
I see post all the time on boards and ads on ebay too that say a car was painted with 6, 8, 10 coats or more of this or that paint.

Huh? With the new paint today, do more coats of paint actually make it look any better? I put on 4 coats of yellow when I did my T bucket, but they were light coats and I had no runs. You could see through the second coat a little, the third would have been fine, but the fourth was just good insurance. Same with clear, you need enough to buff, but will it really look any better with 10 coats of clear? I used PPG DBC on the T Bucket and I'm going to use the same for the Mustang.
----------------------------------------------------------
Here is what they are not telling you is what they did to get to that ten coats of paint.
Did they wet sand or dry sand between coats say every third with 320-800 grit?
Before buffing did the sand clear with 320-600 and then buff.
Did they use a low solid clear, medium solid or high solid?


For your question there is no one answer as all paints and clears are different.
There are a lot of good clears made to do production work that are good clears but at the third to fourth coat you are getting less gloss then say two coats.
There are a lot of clears that get very brittle and after two coats start going down hill with durability.
Way too many factors to give a simple answer but you don't use a spot repair clear like 2042/55 or 7600 and try and do a custom job with it as it is not made for that purpose.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
351 Posts
milo said:
I am a paint expert but what do i know? :D Remember a wet coat is 2 passes with the gun moving about 1 foot a second from about 8 inches away. so what some think is a coat is really a half coat...
if your not needing to buff then 2 coats or 4 passes is all thats needed. If you plan on buffing then add 2 more passes or a third full wet coat.

I'm a rookie that thought 1 heavy coat was a wet coat.

Do you go around the car twice to achieve a wet coat or coat it twice while you're going around it once? I would assume coating it twice while going around it once would be correct but I'd like to make sure.

Ya learn something new every day.

Danny
 

·
point on positive
Joined
·
1,680 Posts
The first pass is 50% on the panel and 50% on the paper..or off the panel.
The second pass is 50% overlapping on the first pass and 50% starting the next 1/2 coat setting up for continued overlapping passes etc.
The last pass is 50% off the panel as in the begining and that makes a single wet coat.
The half that hits the paper isn't really wasted,, it holds the dust or fine lint there helping keep things clean..

Like mowing the lawn...starting with the mowwer half on the walkway and overlapping each pass covering where the wheels marks are with the middle of the machine each pass kinda... :thumbup:

clicky
http://www.a2zautoforums.com/showthread.php?t=3832



 

·
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
Joined
·
16,328 Posts
milo said:
The first pass is 50% on the panel and 50% on the paper..or off the panel.
The second pass is 50% overlapping on the first pass and 50% starting the next 1/2 coat setting up for continued overlapping passes etc.
The last pass is 50% off the panel as in the begining and that makes a single wet coat.
The half that hits the paper isn't really wasted,, it holds the dust or fine lint there helping keep things clean..

Like mowing the lawn...starting with the mowwer half on the walkway and overlapping each pass covering where the wheels marks are with the middle of the machine each pass kinda... :thumbup:

clicky
http://www.a2zautoforums.com/showthread.php?t=3832



Hey milo, you need to start bagging dude and toss that cheap masking paper. With a good bag you can skip paper all together!

Brian
 

·
point on positive
Joined
·
1,680 Posts
I always worry the overspray dust will come loose even though it says paint this side.

Besides how could you do a off panel mask for a blend?


*The redish color in this pic was photoshoped in for contrast on a white car in a workshop thread showing where clear was stepped down under "blend bridges" at the top of the sail panel is a "half coat" of clear



Heres one bagged underneth to keep it clean.. :thumbup:


See the paint on the masking..50%
 

·
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
Joined
·
16,328 Posts
I am not certain what you mean by an "off panel blend". On the overspray coming off, forgetaboutit, if you are using a quality bag like 3M (and there are penty others, I used a gray one made in Germany that was great) the overspray DOES NOT come off. In fact, it WILL come off the paper on lint from the paper.

On your blend on that sail panel, just do it exactly as you are. But I have to tell you, unless that is a real low end job spraying that sail panel/roof side all the way to the cowl is not that much more work and you have no blend at all.

Brian
 

·
point on positive
Joined
·
1,680 Posts
MARTINSR said:
On your blend on that sail panel, just do it exactly as you are. But I have to tell you, unless that is a real low end job spraying that sail panel/roof side all the way to the cowl is not that much more work and you have no blend at all.

Brian[/QUOTE, that would mean all the way over to the other quarter as well ...on a ten year old car...???
check the links..http://www.a2zautoforums.com/showpost.php?p=34103&postcount=9
or here in case your stuck with a dial- up
>>Hi Hages , Good eye for the trunk panel question. It brings us straight to this car owner's understanding and direction. Most money shops would insist on blending into the trunk yet not always with the best interest of the car in mind. In fact on a Lexus such as this they would also want to clear the sail panels and roof as well as the right quarter panel since theres no break on the the roof to stop the clear. As you might guess there would also be R&I times for other procedures involved as well jacking the cost into thousands of dollars. So what we tried to do was keep a sensible budget and get a desired acceptable result.
I repaired a nasty rusted dent that was where the little bit of primer is and it wasn't till I was creating paper masking "bridges" that I grabbed the camera and starting snapping pictures, then got so busy I havn'et made it back to talk about the process.

Even now I'm between coats on a cycle and need to go check..lol
.

Fans at home are seeing the best of the best toe to toe :boxing: in the paint game.. :welcome:

Second book of Chronicals 2:7
Send me now therefore a man cunning to work in gold,and silver,and in brass, and in iron,and in purple,and crimson, and blue, and that can skill to grave with the cunning men that are with me in etc...etc...

it's in there trust me! :thumbup:
 

·
point on positive
Joined
·
1,680 Posts
confused said:
milo its always nice to see your work i have been watching you here and at a2z good job :thumbup:
Thanks man, I wish they had the internet when I was first wanting to know how to paint.. There was a time when I parked outside bodyshops and looked through binoculars to see what I could spy wanting to know how they did bodywork and paint...

can you imagine if everyone who posted in this thread got to got involved in this project--> http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/hok-painter-working-holiday-australia-102988.html
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
62 Posts
:are u going?? that would be nice and pricey. i have no teacher just the internet,spray gun and credit cards :D :D you learn real fast when its costing you money to learn
 

·
EFI Rules and Carbs Drool
Joined
·
919 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
Well I'm gald I'm not the only one that has wondered this before. At least I know that I'm on the right track it sounds.

When I'm ready, I'll be using Barry's perfect paint prodeedure. I already ordered all the paint supplies from SPI and they should be here anyday.
 

·
See project in Photo Album
Joined
·
203 Posts
confused said:
....i have no teacher just the internet,spray gun and credit cards :D :D you learn real fast when its costing you money to learn
Amen to that. Friends ask me how I know the steps of the paint procedure [notice I didn't write that I know how to paint, lol], I tell them "the internet", they laugh but I don't care!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
62 Posts
i didnt know anything about paint or guns but after a long time here and spi board and 101 you learn soo much that you want to try it and before you know it its like well thats not soo hard as long as you stay focused :spank:
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Top