[rusttorod]

A buddy gave me a nice medium sized cast iron wood heater for my 24x24 shop. It's just 2x4 frame, plywood, and vinyl siding, no insulation anywhere. I'm not an hvac guy, so I'm trying to figure out the proper way to install this thing. It has an 8" opening on the back side. I'd like to run the stovepipe straight through the wall so that it doesn't take up too much space in the shop. I started reading up on how to install a chimney pipe, but there were so many rules and codes to follow I figured maybe I should have someone come out and install it for me.

The question is how much should I expect to pay to have someone install a simple pipe through the wall and chimney outside close to vinyl siding? I figure the free stove is worth around $1,200, so I don't mind spending a little to install it, as long as the price isn't outrageous.

Is this something I could do myself if I knew what pieces to buy and all the codes?

-Shane
www.RustToRod.com

 

[OneMoreTime]

Chimney?

There should be I would hope a hardware store in your area that carries the stainless steel chimney pipe and necessary pieces for this..they come with good instructions so it should not be too difficult to do.

My local Ace Hardware has the stuff on the shelf..

What you would have to pay to have someone come out and do it for you I have no idea as how things are priced in your area..

Good luck..

OMT

 

[cboy]

Just so you are aware - putting a woodburner in your garage can void your homeowners or renters insurance so you might want to check with your carrier before moving forward with the project. Yes, you can get away without telling them but should you ever have a fire (even if not caused by the stove), you might find you have no coverage. Some carriers don't allow woodburners at all and those that do are usually quite strict about how they are installed.

Dewey

 

[rusttorod]

Good point cboy. I'll call the insurance guy to check on it. I've been reading more about how to install the chimney, but I'm still not sure exactly which pieces to buy. I talked to dude at TSC, and he was helpful, but not an expert. Lowe's and Home Depot only have a few assorted parts.

I just want to make sure I know what I'm doing so I don't cook my street rod. That would be devastating. If it did happen, and insurance didn't cover it, well, it would be bad.

 

[cboy]

I just want to make sure I know what I'm doing so I don't cook my street rod. That would be devastating. If it did happen, and insurance didn't cover it, well, it would be bad.

AMEN.

 

[Kevin45]

Straight thru the wall is tacky if you have a stack running straight up on the outside. Buy an 8" elbow, a couple of pieces of single wall, a transition box to go thru the rafters, and a stainless triple wall to go thru the roof, along with the proper roof flashing. Lowes and Home Depot should have a flue kit that has all the necessary stuff, already packaged up. Then all you need is the elbow and couple of pieces of single wall. It should only take a few hours once you get everything together. Set the stove where you want (as long as it is centered between two rafters, put the elbow on the back, use a plumb bob to find where the center is on top, cut the opening for the transition box, run the plumb bob to the roof, get a drill and drill thru so you know where everything is once you are on top of the roof, take a flat bar and remove some shingles, cut the proper size hole for the triple wall flue, add the flashing, then start anstalling pipe. One thing to remember is that the pipe runs into one another from the top down. It looks backwards but Weimer explained it to me from a Stove dealer that the upper pipe runs into the lower pipe. That way if creosote runs down the flue it will run into the lower pipe and not run out. Sort of like funneling down if that makes sense. Look at the attached sketch to see what I mean.

 

[dinger]

Kevin is on the right track here. I've installed 6-700 freestanding wood stoves in the last 12 years, it's my winter job. U.L. listed stoves should have clearances on the back of the stove to combustibles. If you can't make these clearances in a practical manner, wonder board/concrete type of wall board with a 1 inch space between the wall and the board will narrow this down to a few inches. A cheap way is to cut rain gutter nail supports for the spacers. Also while you're back there, many stoves that exit out the back have removeable boots that can be turned upside down to exit straight up Out the wall IS NOT a good idea, draft problems may occur. A minimumn of 12 feet of pipe from top of the stove to the cap is recommended. For every 90 you add, 3 feet of pipe may be needed for a good draft. Here's how I do installations. Spot the stove where you would like, getting your proper clearances. The support box for the class A pipe (the pipe going through the roof) can be installed between the rafter, as close to directly above the stove as possible. 2 2x4s can be positioned to hold the box, nailed between the rafters. Drill 4 holes in the support box, leaving at least 2-3 inches of the support box below the rafters. Mount the box, using a torpedo level to insure it's level, with screws to the 2x4s. We use hex head screws and a cordless drill for this. If the box isn't level, your pipe coming out of the roof won't be level either. Now, using a plumb line, drill a hole through your roof, dead center of the hole through your support box. Take your flashing to the roof, spot the drilled hole in the center of the flashing, scribe the hole from the inside of the flashing, cut a square hole with a skill saw. Pop the cut material, throw it away. Now take a putty knife and a screw driver, try to slide the flashing under the shingles to where half the top of the flashing is covered by the shingles. Use the putty knife or screwdriver to pull any nails or staples so the flashing will slide under the shingles. Now you're ready for the class A pipe. You should have what is called a P connector, it will attach to the class a pipe that goes into your support box, a inch or 2 will stick out of the support box, this is what you attach the single wall pipe to. Your class A pipe should be a minimumn of 2 feet above your roof within a 10 foot radius. In other words, if you had a 10 foot long stick that you held level 2 feet down from the top of your class a pipe, it wouldn't touch any part of your roof. Clear as mud? Most codes call for a minimumn of 2 feet out the roof, also. Attach enough of the class a pipe together to get you out of the roof, drop it through your flashing into your support box. Add more if needed. A storm collar pushed down tight to the flashing, use some high heat silicone to seal. Put your cap on, you're done with the top. Down to the stove. You have 8 inch pipe, you can use an adapter on the stove to downsize to 6 inch, class A and inside pipe, it is cheaper and probably will draft better. If possible, straight up from the stove, 45 elbows at the support box if needed, better clearances and draft. If you have to elbow at the stove top, same thing if you need elbows to attach to the class a. Slip pipes are available, one slips inside the other, telescoping. Measure the distance from the top of the stove to the p connector, this will give you an idea on total length, what size slip to use. Use self tapping stove screws to attach the pipe together. Any questions, give me a pm. Going out through the back wall is usually about 2-3 times more expensive than straight up, more class a pipe, more expensive support box, strapping to keep the pipe away from the wall. Class a pipe has clearances also, 2 inches on most I know of, if you run into a roof truss problem, cut the truss and add a cripple for support. We charge $350 for one of these jobs, takes us 1-2 hours, tops. I would expect total cost of materials, top to bottom, about $500. Kev is right on about pipe fit, it should fit inside as it comes down, prevents creosote drip. Good luck, Dan

 

[ole bull]

just one more thing, if you do put the heater in the garage. i would really try to spring for some insulation in the ceiling even that is the only place you can put it. it will make a big difference in keeping the heat in.

 

[julmer]

I had to heat my uninsulated garage most of last winter. This year, I don't turn it on unless I'm actually out there and freezing. I ended up spending FAR more for heat than it would have cost to fully finish the inside. Money's a bit tighter this year so I'll insulate before I consider running the heat again.

 

[rusttorod]

Wow dinger, it's like I'm watching you install a chimney just by reading that! Thanks for all the detail. I definately feel more confident about doing it myself. I followed every bit of it until this part -

----
You have 8 inch pipe, you can use an adapter on the stove to downsize to 6 inch, class A and inside pipe, it is cheaper and probably will draft better. If possible, straight up from the stove, 45 elbows at the support box if needed, better clearances and draft. If you have to elbow at the stove top, same thing if you need elbows to attach to the class a. Slip pipes are available, one slips inside the other, telescoping.
----

I'm not sure what you mean about the 45 elbows. Exactly where should I place the downsize adapter?

Here's what I'm understanding so far -

8" 90 degree elbow right off the back of the stove - then an 8" to 6" adapter on top of that - then black stove pipe pieces stacked up to the rafters - connecting to the bottom side of the support box that is screwed into 2x4 framing centered in the rafters - then class A pipe (double wall $40 from Lowe's, or triple wall $70 from TSC?) connected to top side of support box extending up through the flashing and storm collar on the roof - sealed with high heat silicone (brand?) - and a cap on top.

Does that sound right? TSC sells a triple wall roof kit that has most of the pieces for about $162. TSC Part # 3194002
http://www.mytscstore.com/detail.asp?pcID=2&paID=1014&sonID=491&productID=9125

I think all it's missing is black pipe sections, 90 degree elbow, size adapter, and a little more triple wall to get high enough off the roof.

Is hardi-backer board the right stuff to shield my 2x4 framed walls behind the black pipe?

If I've got that all right, I'll go pick it up today and install it tomorrow.

Last year I just used a little kerosene heater, which couldn't keep up. My buddy says with this wood heater I'll have to raise the garage door!

I called my insurance guy at American National and he told me that having a wood heater in the shop would not affect my rates, and I would be covered in the event of a fire.

Thanks for the much needed advice!!
-Shane

 

[Kevin45]

If you install hardi-backer I would not install it directly on the 2x4 studs. Most wood stove places suggest that you have at least a 1" air space between the backer and 2x4. That way any heat transfer would not be directly to the studs. Also as far as the size I am not sure and I imagine Dinger can tell you, but behind the stove there is a minimum size that the piece needs to be for safety purposes. And when it comes to fire it is better to be safe than sorry. A little overkill never hurts. I ran across this site that has some very useful info you may want to check.



CHECK IT HERE

Kevin

 

[dinger]

I'm not sure what you mean about the 45 elbows. Exactly where should I place the downsize adapter

First, did you check to see if the boot on your stove was reversible, can it be unbolted and turned around to make it exit straight up? If not, I would use an eight inch 90, 8-6 in adapter on the top of the 90, inside fit where it goes onto the 90, outside fit where it hooks to the next piece of 6inch pipe. Keep in mind the outside radius of a 90 will get hot. Go top to bottom with 6 inch from the adaptor. If you can only get 8 inch class A pipe, use 8 inch top to bottom. 45 elbows are only if you can't locate your support box straight above your pipe, i.e. your support box is offset from where your pipe comes straight up from the stove. The less turns you use on your pipe, the better the draft. Most codes will only allow 2-90's or 2 sets of elbows in any combination. There are 3 types of class A I am aware of, double wall, galvalume is one of them, it uses an air gap between the 2 walls, some use stainless steel with an insulating packing. Triple wall is usually galvanized, uses 3 pipes with an air space to cool. They're all good. You can also use double wall inside pipe for the inside pipe, it will cut your clearance some more. Cost is almost twice as much as single wall. Kevin is right on about the one inch airspace for the hardibacker. AS far ws silicone goes, any high temp from the hardware store will work. I use it almost everyday but for the life of me can't think of the brand name. A couple of things to remember, Make sure the kit you buy will fit the size of pipe you're using. ALWAYS, fit the pipe inside coming down, creosote won't leak through. Class A pipe, make sure the same thing, however the outside portion of the pipe may fit on the outside, so make sure the inside pipe is right. Buy some self tapping stove screws, hex head, they will make your job a whole lot easier. Buy or borrow some crimpers. Most stoves burn right on the brick, no grates. A little harder to start a fire but better radiant heat. Seam to seam when you put your pipe together, run the seams up the back side on your inside pipe, looks better. Open the door slowly when you feed the fire to prevent smoke from spilling out. Hopes this helps. Dan

 

[rusttorod]

Thanks Dinger, that's a lot of great tips that I wouldn't get otherwise. I decided to look at Lowe's one more time after work today, and they now have a roof kit in stock for $123. I called TSC earlier today and they only had the through the wall kit in stock.

I was reading up at the site that Kevin found, and they say to use a T connector on the back of the stove. Do you recommend this? Is that to help clean out the creosote junk?

Lowe's has 24" double wall for $40 or 36" double wall for $57. I'm hoping I can get away with only 2 of those. Add in $5 each for 6 sections of 24" black stovepipe, $5 for the size adapter, another $15 for the 90 degree turn (T or elbow?) , some screws and some sealer, should put me real close to $300.

I checked on moving the output to the top. This stove has a decorative grate on top the hinges to lift up and looks like you can put a pot of water on it. It says Brookdale on top. Is that a good brand name? Here's a couple pictures. Btw, that's not the final installed location.

Now I just have to borrow a ladder!
Thanks!!
-Shane
www.RustToRod.com

 

[dinger]

A tee connect is not a bad idea, it simplifies keeping the pipe clean of ash and creosote. Make sure your tee, if you get one, is tight where the cleanout is located, no sparks or coals can escape. Does your stove have a date on it? It looks a little older, I believe the knobs under the doors are your air intake. Make sure these are open when you open the doors to feed the fire. You won't be able to reverse the boot on the back. The plate on the back should have your clearances. If the stove is U.L. listed on that plate, I would think it's a good one. It cetainly is a nice looking stove. Another thing to check on with an older stove, is there a fire box inside the cast iron body or is the body the fire box. Old Franklin type of stoves that bolt together and don't have a seperate fire box can be dangerous if the bolts fail or the body cracks. If it's the former keep an eye out for these things. I'm not trying to alarm you, chances are slim of this happening but they did use to happen too often on the old Franklin type sold for many years, through the 70s, I believe. The Franklin type I've seen were not UL listed.

Lowe's has 24" double wall for $40 or 36" double wall for $57. I'm hoping I can get away with only 2 of those. Add in $5 each for 6 sections of 24" black stovepipe, $5 for the size adapter, another $15 for the 90 degree turn (T or elbow?) , some screws and some sealer, should put me real close to $300.

Good prices on the pipe. Good luck with your project, let us know how you do. Dan

 

[Weimer]

I noticed something...nobody mentioned a damper.
Make sure you spend the extra change and get a good cast-iron damper to put in the black pipe to control the fire.
You don't want your fire burning full bore all of the time, it'll get too hot, and you'll burn tons of extra wood. You must have a way to 'smother' the flame to let a fire burn down.
Later,
WEIMER

 

[dinger]

I noticed something...nobody mentioned a damper.

Good thought. If this stove doesn't have air controls a damper in the pipe would be a good idea. Most of the newer stoves will have both. Dan

 

[Kevin45]

Hey Rusttorod...Snap some pics of the installation process as you go. Might be a good thing to post as the cold season is fast upon us and some others may want to do the same thing. Also one other thing I failed to mention earlier...make sure you have your roof flashing installed correctly. The bottom (towards the edge of the roof) of the flashing will be on top of the shingles and exposed a little while the top (towards the peak) will be underneath the shingles. Get a flat bar and a putty knife to loosen the old shingles. Use the putty knife first to loosen the shingle, slide the flat bar underneath to work the nail loose, then pull the nail from the top. This will keep your shingle from tearing. You will also have to probably go 3 or 4 wide and probably 5 down to get enough room for the flashing. Just a small tip.

Kevin

 

[rusttorod]

The chimney has been installed! I looked all over the internet looking for chimney roof kits. TSC had one listed, but not in stock. I couldn't find anything about chimney parts on the lowe's website. I decided to go by there one more time, and they finally had the stovepipe parts in stock. They had a roof install kit just like TSC's, but it was only $123, so that saved me about 40 bucks. I got the double wall too - 2 three foot sections and 1 two foot section to get it up high enough. Thanks to you guys, I was able to grab everything I needed pretty quickly.

Installation wasn't too bad. A lot of work for a first timer, but could've been worse. One mistake I made (by not following the directions closely enough) was nailing down the roof flashing before I had the double wall sections put together and sticking through the roof. The flashing was just slightly off center after I nailed it down. It looked more flexible than it really was. When I shoved the chimney pieces through it from the attic space, they didn't line up with the framing I built for the chimney's ceiling support. I had to go back up on the roof (dark outside by now), pull the nails out, got the black sealer goop all over me, install the chimney straight, and put the flashing back down. Would've been much easier to put the chimney up before positioning the flashing.

Everything else went together like legos. Grand total was real close to $365. That doesn't include the 16' extension ladder I had to buy too, but that was only $60.

I just fired it up tonight, and it worked great. I felt of the pipes in the attic space, and they were only warm to the touch. I'm very happy I did this little project myself, I figure I saved at least a few hundred dollars. And you know what that means - more money for hot rod parts!

I would like to say THANK YOU for all the help and advice!!

-Shane
www.RustToRod.com

 

[Kevin45]

Way to go. Nothing better than heat in the garage on the chilly days/nights! Glad everything went fine without too much of a hitch.

Kevin

 

[dinger]

Good deal, rustorod. Glad we could be of some help. Dan