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the 'Duracell Project'
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Arrowhead said:
There is another mmeber here that built a split tube axle which gives you the flexability (almost) of an IRS but the look of a solid axle.



Here's his website with a lot more pictures:

http://dons.zenfolio.com/p861300798/e2bf3c124#h32205db4
i don't get it. his fabrication skills are very good, but as an engineer i see so many ways for this to fail. catastrophically. the use of hairpins to keep the axle from rotating and then a swivel in the center to encourage rotation. but the biggest stress points and thus failure points i see, is moving his suspension to the rear 10'' and mounting it on 1'' solid round stock drilled thru the axle. even the panhard bar is mounted with a 10'' offset. i see it was finished in 07, i wonder if it was ever road worthy???
 

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Sprint cars and Dodge trucks use solid front axles and the 4bar setup with coils..those handle well and give a good look..

Sam
 

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There is a lot to be said for the "look" of a fenderless hot rod. Not a lot of mention here about drivability. My question to 65shelby is are you building it for to show or as a driver. There are some major performance and handeling tradeoffs to an I beam axel. For those who drive 'em, things like bump steer and crawfishing over bumpy roads can can get tiring after a while. A well designed IFS will definitly make a better driver. As mentioned, an I beam with four bar would be the next best thing. I'd go one step further for drivability and put in a Unisteer rack vs a Vega box. If the rod is more for show than go I'd bypass the hairpin look and go right for the split wishbones and F1 box. Now that's a traditional rod look. You won't win any road races but no one will fault you for looking traditional.
 

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Why not try a split I beam aka ford truck only with "car" sized parts?

Beams- check, hairpins-check, IFS-check

scaled down from a ford truck , hell it last Ford how long??? Plus no-one else would have one. just my 2 cents
Rick
 

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As a hot rodder, I am a dedicated follower of the dropped axle, not everyone has the facilities to produce a multi-link indy suspension. I believe we as part of the hot rod fraternity subscribe to quality, ingenuity, and simplicity. My 27 is like many of the rods with its dropped axle, I love the look. The handling will never win a slalom or a road race, but give me a 1/4 mile of asphalt, and there's not many cars that will go faster. The rat rod I built in 1962 had the same front end, and a 348 chev. It was fast yes and it had all the handling idiosyncrasies the dropped axle and leaf spring is known for. Heck, my 96 trans am had bump steer like crazy. So what, as long as what you build does what you want it to who cares, just be proud of it and enjoy it. It is your badge of honor, and what sets you apart from the majority of people.

My nickels worth.
:)
 

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ifs vs dropped

I agree with centerline, I'm building a 36 ford which will have a Jag Irs in back, but in front, I'm going with a 4- bar link straight axle in order to keep the old school look. I think I would trust it more than IFS in front
 

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ifs vs dropped

Thanks oldtime, Mine isn't dropped, it's stock, original. The guy that sold it to me welden the brackets for the 4-bar link rods and gave me the rods also. All I have to get are the spindles and king pins
 

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Discussion Starter #29
ifs vs drop

Thanks everyone, I will most likely go drop axle. Being fenderless I like the look better. Although there are some beautiful ifs cars out there. I really want to try my ifs drop axle idea though. Does anyone know of a supplier that offers a longer 4 bar set up?
 

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ifs vs dropped

I've never owned a rod with an ifs I'm not even sure how to put one on. I suppose I could learn, like every thing else, but for me, nothing does it like looking at an old school I beam dropped axle staring me right in the face.
 

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Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
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65shelby said:
Thanks everyone, I will most likely go drop axle. Being fenderless I like the look better. Although there are some beautiful ifs cars out there. I really want to try my ifs drop axle idea though. Does anyone know of a supplier that offers a longer 4 bar set up?
One thing will be where you put your drag link. If it's cross steer than longer or shorter four bar won't matter. If you are running a drag link from a stock like steering box in the cowl up to the axle you want the four bars axle arch to match the drag links.

Brian
 

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Everyone has an opinion and that's all most of them are unless they involve safety or handling concerns for the particular car. I much prefer the look of a traditional 30s Ford axle or aftermarket dropped unit with wishbones. Close second would be a 4 bar. I have seen some well done ifs on open wheel cars that look good but not many. One thing that almost always happens is the radiator ends up hanging out there in front of the tires and that just hurts my eyes.
 

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Discussion Starter #33
drop axle

what is everyones opinion on an I beam vs tube? I know there will be opinions on looks, but what about strength? And has anyone tried the fatman split axle kit? Not the twin i-beam but the center split one?
 

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A I-beam is stronger ... but that said I have a tube axle. With a 4 bar .. a tube axle is great. I have over 200 thousand miles on 4 bars and a tube axle ( different vehicles ) I have well over 50 thousand miles on my 32 Ford roadster with a TCI 4 bar and a tube axle.





When I decide to build myself another 32 Ford ( this time a 3 window coupe ) ... I just duplicated what had worked so well for me in the 32 roadster.

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I understand the want or desire to do something unique and out of the box ... but suspension is NOT a place to try and be different. Fatman,s shop is close to my home and he sells very, very few split axle kits. I see absolutely no advantage to using one of them. All it can really do is allow the camber to change when going over a bump. :(



The photos in dons.zenfolio journal just looks like a complicated, overly done solution to a simple problem IMHO.

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4 bar = either a tube or a I beam is OK
Split wishbones or hairpins = I beam

Pretty simple really.

Decide if you want a 4 bar, a hairpin or some IFS.
On a Hiboy roadster ... nothing looks BETTER than a tube or a I beam.

Go to this site http://www.carnut.com/photo/list/flist.html and then click on Ford. Then go to the 1932 section. There will be a section for Hiboy roadsters. There are over 5 0 0 photos of 1932 Hiboy Fords. Figure out which look YOU LIKE :D

DEUCE ... Moderator :thumbup:
 

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Deuce beat me to it. That said, I've always been told that "I" beam axles are stronger and can be used with split bones, hairpins, or a 4 bar setup. Tube axles on the other hand should not be used with anything other than a 4 bar as the torsional twisting of the other suspensions could cause fatigue and failure of the tube over time. Not sure how true that is but that's what I've been told and it sure makes sense to me.

Centerline
HotRodsAndHemis.com

"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, WOW, What a ride!" - Anonymous
 

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Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
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Yep, the I Beam is the way to go in my opinion. They flex and allow for a little better ride and not so hard on the links to them. Like I have said, I have been in a number of properly set up dropped axle cars and they drive and handle just wonderful. Will they out perform a properly setup IFS on a road course, well of course not. But will they let you have fun thru a curvy mountain road, yes they will. It isn't as if they are a horse and wagon.

Brian
 

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Thanks for the info, martinsr, I'm not sure what steering I'm goint to use yet. I would like to use a power steering unit with a tilt column (for looks).
 

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donna hernandez said:
Thanks for the info, martinsr, I'm not sure what steering I'm goint to use yet. I would like to use a power steering unit with a tilt column (for looks).
You shouldn't need power steering. My deuce has a Vega style (actually early Nova) steering box and a 700 lb. hemi up front. I can easily steer it with one finger when its moving and parking and tight maneuvering is almost as effortless.

Centerline
HotRodsAndHemis.com

“I wrote to the head man at General Motors and said, "I`m gonna have to desert you if you don't stop making cars for women." - John Wayne
 

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Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
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And let's also clarify your steering column has nothing to do with this discussion.

Some of these components need to be "match" of course, but the car is made up of hundreds of parts, the bolt on and are removed one at a time. Look at it that way and the project is way more manageable.

Your tilt column can be put in any car with any suspension and steering box or rack and pinion set up.

And the use of that column no doesn't change (much) when used with any suspension or steering box. Now the earlier cars all have a steering box with a steering column that is "one piece" and you stick the steering column up thru the firewall when you bolt the box in.

Here's a 55 Ford F-100 box and column.


But you can replace that with your tilt column..


And a "U" joint at the bottom....


Hooked to a steering box.


Or Rack and pinion..


That steering box or rack could be either power or non power.

The suspension could be either IRS or dropped axle, the column doesn't "know" what it is. :)

Forgive me if I have explained the obvious to you but for others as well, just thought I would go thru that.

Brian
 

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ifs vs dropped

Thanks guys, I knew that the tilt had nothing to do with the performance. I was just thinking of looks. The steering box that I have is a maverick I was told, only I don't know for sure. Whatever I choose, I think I will go with a conventional column to stay with the old school look and keep a conventional steering. less belts that way.
 
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