[CometCyclone]

Remember back in 1984 when the Gran National first came out with the 3.8 L turbo V-6 with 240HP, then by 1987 it was up to 270 Hp, and it was one of the hottest new cars of the era?

It had more HP than many/most of the new American V-8's at the time, which were around 215-240HP or so.

Other standard V-6's at that time had much lower HP. I dont know the exact numbers, but I'd bet that the V-6's in the Mustangs, Camaros, Firebirds, etc probably only had about 140-150HP. I bought a 1987 Firebird in 2004 at an auction with a V-6, and it was pretty slow.

Now, the standard V-6 in either the Camaro, Mustang, or Mopars have 300Hp! Thats the entry level engine for those cars, and they are more powerful than almost ALL the V-8's made from like 1975-1996, except for rare cases like the ZR-1 Corvette, which had 375HP.

But today, I read a post from another member here talking about his Father's '89 Taurus SHO, and so I looked up the Taurus, and discovered that Ford has brought back the Taurus SHO for the first time in 10 years or so, and it has a 3.5L, twin turbo, direct injected V-6 producing 365HP and 350Ft/Lbs torque. Thats right up there with the most powerful stock small block V-8's made from 1960-1998! Its about as powerful as either Lt-1 350..... The car itself has lots of great performance features as well, which I wasnt even aware of til now.

I cant wait to hear and drive one of these new V-6 cars....

 

[SloeRyde]

I sure do remember! Those turbo six's were awesome compared to the neutered V8s of the same era. Test drove a new '89 turbo T/A (in 89 of course) and was very impressed with its performance.

I wouldn't buy a new camaro or mustang with a V6 though, not when the V8 is so much more kick ***.

BUT, I think that these new super output V6 engines just might be the hot ticket for future transplants into lightweight hot rods.

Anyone for a $500-$750 low mile salvage yard 300hp lightweight gas sippin' smooth runnin' emission test passin' reliable modern mill from ANY of the big three? Sounds good to me.

With the popularity of the current vehicles these engines are in, the aftermarket will have lots of goodies and the junk yards will be full of wrecked late models.

 

[DoubleVision]

When I got tired of fooling with small blocks, I went to V6`s which cost more money to play with and to make power with. I mostly fool with the 4.3 GM V6 which is a 350 with 2 cylinders chopped off. While they don`t make the power of a small block, they sure do tach fast as lightning and that`s what I like about`em. I also like the long flat torque curve, torque that feels like it just keeps going. I made real nice power and surprised a few people with my TBI 4.3 build. Now the TBI`s wiring is bum and the crappy swirl port heads guides are shot, so now I`m stepping up to no more computer. I got Vortec heads at the machine shop getting prepped with ferrea valves and the springs for my cam. The 4.3 Vortec heads are identical to there L31 cousins. I got a intake coming for it that`s for the mercury Mercruiser GM 4.3 line, It`s a Vortec intake with a Quadrajet pattern which I perfer but what I like the best about it is it`s a single plane intake with a divider plate in the center. I`m making a home made HEI for it and when I`m finished, it`ll be close to 300 horses which will be a big step up from the limited flow TBI.
300 horses, tachs fast as lightning with my 5 speed tranny and 3.42 gears with posi should be a lot of fun. THe only thing I don`t like about all V6`s is, you just about can`t make the exhaust sound good. They make a really weird exhaust note. I`ve found a way to make it sound very close to a small block, but it took a bit of experimenting.

 

[CometCyclone]

When I got tired of fooling with small blocks, I went to V6`s which cost more money to play with and to make power with. I mostly fool with the 4.3 GM V6 which is a 350 with 2 cylinders chopped off. While they don`t make the power of a small block, they sure do tach fast as lightning and that`s what I like about`em. I also like the long flat torque curve, torque that feels like it just keeps going. I made real nice power and surprised a few people with my TBI 4.3 build. Now the TBI`s wiring is bum and the crappy swirl port heads guides are shot, so now I`m stepping up to no more computer. I got Vortec heads at the machine shop getting prepped with ferrea valves and the springs for my cam. The 4.3 Vortec heads are identical to there L31 cousins. I got a intake coming for it that`s for the mercury Mercruiser GM 4.3 line, It`s a Vortec intake with a Quadrajet pattern which I perfer but what I like the best about it is it`s a single plane intake with a divider plate in the center. I`m making a home made HEI for it and when I`m finished, it`ll be close to 300 horses which will be a big step up from the limited flow TBI.
300 horses, tachs fast as lightning with my 5 speed tranny and 3.42 gears with posi should be a lot of fun. THe only thing I don`t like about all V6`s is, you just about can`t make the exhaust sound good. They make a really weird exhaust note. I`ve found a way to make it sound very close to a small block, but it took a bit of experimenting.

Yaeh, I forgot about that v-6 funky exhaust note.

However, I had a young co-worker/friend who, in 1995, got rid of his Wiggered-out S-10 pickup with the permanent low ride suspension made so by chopping springs, so it rode like crap, and he finally left behind the white-gangster style he had been caught up in, and traded in the S-10 for a used 1986 Gran National. It sounded pretty good with the stock style exhaust. The stock ones were pretty quick for the time too, considering it was the 80's, and they were heavier cars. Rode good too!

I also remember LOTS of people souping up their Gran Nationals and bringing them to the dragstrip on Friday nights from 1986-1995. You'd see quite a few, and they didnt sound too bad as I remember, but maybe my memory is just a bit foggy...

 

[SloeRyde]

And, a 4-71 looks right at home atop of a 4.3 vee six. If you like that sort of thing

 

[lt1silverhawk]

BUT, I think that these new super output V6 engines just might be the hot ticket for future transplants into lightweight hot rods.

With the popularity of the current vehicles these engines are in, the aftermarket will have lots of goodies and the junk yards will be full of wrecked late models.

I agree. An although I will be in the minority for believing this, I see the new direct-injected V6s being used in the future by Ford and GM in the more high performance models. Ford, of course, has already begun doing that with the Ecoboost offerings.

Chevy has yet to release a Z28 to take on the new Boss. It may be because the current car isn't set up to take on the Boss's performance level, and the folks over at Chevy probably realize that it may just take more than dropping in a higher horse-power engine into the Camaro. The car would have to meet or exceed in the handling department as well.

The Camaro's current platform has been known to be over-weight since day one, and there are plans to move to a smaller, light-weight platform by the 2015 model year. When Chevy does move to the lighter platform, the current 6.3 LS3 may prove to be a bit heavy, which would affect road-handling.

Now, here's where my blasphemy comes in: Build the Z28 by dropping in the direct-injected 3.6 with a single or twin turbo, and focus on weight reduction and handling. Road handling has become a big thing with the younger consumers in recent years (think drifting, autocross), and Ford's Mustang, Hyundai's Genesis coupe, and Nissan's 370z are doing great in that respect, while not being short on power. The Z28 would have to compete with that. Which makes sense; after all, the original Z28 was a high-revving track performer.

Most importantly, the aftermarket has embraced the new V6s. Those of us who follow the tuner industry are aware that there are quite a few aftermarket packages for these engines that bump up the horsepower into the V8 range. They are pricey, but should drop in price as these engines become more common.

And of course, as an added bonus, a light-weight with a V6 should return good gas mileage as well.

With all that said, I'm keeping my LT1s.

 

[against all odds]

When I got tired of fooling with small blocks, I went to V6`s which cost more money to play with and to make power with. I mostly fool with the 4.3 GM V6 which is a 350 with 2 cylinders chopped off. While they don`t make the power of a small block, they sure do tach fast as lightning and that`s what I like about`em. I also like the long flat torque curve, torque that feels like it just keeps going. I made real nice power and surprised a few people with my TBI 4.3 build. Now the TBI`s wiring is bum and the crappy swirl port heads guides are shot, so now I`m stepping up to no more computer. I got Vortec heads at the machine shop getting prepped with ferrea valves and the springs for my cam. The 4.3 Vortec heads are identical to there L31 cousins. I got a intake coming for it that`s for the mercury Mercruiser GM 4.3 line, It`s a Vortec intake with a Quadrajet pattern which I perfer but what I like the best about it is it`s a single plane intake with a divider plate in the center. I`m making a home made HEI for it and when I`m finished, it`ll be close to 300 horses which will be a big step up from the limited flow TBI.
300 horses, tachs fast as lightning with my 5 speed tranny and 3.42 gears with posi should be a lot of fun. THe only thing I don`t like about all V6`s is, you just about can`t make the exhaust sound good. They make a really weird exhaust note. I`ve found a way to make it sound very close to a small block, but it took a bit of experimenting.

Please tell me more.

 

[SloeRyde]

Welcome to the minority, lt1silverhawk.

While I too love the V8, and don't plan to abandon them anytime soon (or ever) the automakers will eventually be regulated to the point that smaller more efficient engines are all that's available.

The technology certainly exists to do so, just look to the imports.

I don't really like it, but I bet lots of folks didn't like the sbc or caddy back in the day either. "Whats with all this overhead valve thingamajiggers? I'll just do the tried and true." And that's fine, too. Same with efi, or "e" anything. Takes a while for people to come around.

When some genius REPLACES the internal combustion engine completely, we'll see how that goes over.

A hundred years from now, I hope I can look down and smile on my great-great grandkids as they rebuild a few 97's for their flathead. But as long as I'm looking ''DOWN'' on them while they wrench on something I guess that's good enough!

 

[DoubleVision]

What would you like to know more of? The engine? Or the exhaust? If it`s the exhaust then it takes some experimentation and there is a down side to it. The biggest issue to performance six builds is cost, they cost more than a small block to build plus they won`t run with a small block when finished either. It`s the "dare to be different" thing. The 4.3 was what I had so I went with it. Even so I knew the cost of the build would be higher, I also knew there would be a way to tap into better fuel economy plus have good power which is what I did. But now I`m asking myself is the better fuel economy worth the offset of the cost? When I get my heads back from the machine shop, they`re going to cost me $350. The intake cost me $250.
I haven`t even ordered the head gaskets yet which are custom thin gaskets which will be another $50. And I would love to get a set of headers for it, but the lowest cost headers I`ve found is over $350 and I can`t afford that for a set of headers. By the time it`s all said and done I`ll have over $4000 in this engine. I could have went a lot further by placing that much cash in a small block. However if I were starting from scratch without injection then the build would be considerably cheaper.

 

[78novaman]

Double, I don't really mean to step on your toes, but you even said yourself that a 4.3L is a neutered small block to begin with. As you said it's using the same valves, head design, pistons, etc. that a small block does. Any 4.3L build should be down on power about 25% from a similar 350 sbc build.

Using a V6 that started life as a V6 design is more feasible. The ford 4.2L v6 in the base 1997-2008 f150's makes 200hp. No stock chevy 4.3L ever made that much power, even the 2011 models still only make 190hp. (the Ford's exhaust note is terrible though) The new 3.7L in the trucks makes around 260hp. This is probably why Ford is eating the competition's lunch with their new trucks.

The ecoboost (I dislike that name, should be something more mainly like just saying turbocharged) 3.5L in the trucks makes 420lb-ft of torque at a very low rpm, I think it's around 2200rpm. That engine is a lightweight rod would be a rocket ship. Hell you could start with a base 3.7 Ford or 3.6 Chevy that makes 300hp and add a small turbo to get in the 400-450hp range and still get 30mpg!

 

[Valkyrie5.7]

Double, I don't really mean to step on your toes, but you even said yourself that a 4.3L is a neutered small block to begin with. As you said it's using the same valves, head design, pistons, etc. that a small block does. Any 4.3L build should be down on power about 25% from a similar 350 sbc build.

Using a V6 that started life as a V6 design is more feasible. The ford 4.2L v6 in the base 1997-2008 f150's makes 200hp. No stock chevy 4.3L ever made that much power, even the 2011 models still only make 190hp. (the Ford's exhaust note is terrible though) The new 3.7L in the trucks makes around 260hp. This is probably why Ford is eating the competition's lunch with their new trucks.

The ecoboost (I dislike that name, should be something more mainly like just saying turbocharged) 3.5L in the trucks makes 420lb-ft of torque at a very low rpm, I think it's around 2200rpm. That engine is a lightweight rod would be a rocket ship. Hell you could start with a base 3.7 Ford or 3.6 Chevy that makes 300hp and add a small turbo to get in the 400-450hp range and still get 30mpg!

Well if we're going to talk about turbocharged V6 trucks, lets not forget the Syclone and Typhoon. Turbocharged 4.3L V6 with AWD. 280hp and mid 13s in the 1/4 mile. I'm pretty sure that's not only eating the ecoboost's lunch, it's stealing it's milk money too. Also, it was brand new 20 years ago. Not too shabby.

 

[DoubleVision]

I`m well aware of what a 4.3 as I said so, however, I also said "It`s what I have" right now which is the biggest reason for doing so. other than that it`s got 2 cylinders less so to make good power with it is a different type of challenge. Small blocks have far more interchange pieces than do the little brother V6`s as well. As I mentioned also, the torque curve is nice and flat, it just seems to keep on going. I did the complete overhaul in `07 with the V6, so I don`t see any reason to yank it and drop in a small block even so the thought crossed my mind. Sorry to say, I don`t keep up with GM, Ford or Mopar V6`s now days, I lost interest when the LS line of V8`s took over, I know the power they can make and it`s very impressive, but they are butt stank ugly. They look like they were run through a trash compactor first.
With the 4.3 in my pickup and to make close to 300 horses with a fast as lightning taching it`ll make it fun to drive. In the end, the mileage will still make it around 20 mpg, which is great by me. You have to consider here, I`m going backwards to a carb and I don`t have the option of turbocharging it.
I don`t build rides to rule the street, I build them to be quick on the street.
Knowing I got more power under the hood than the majority makes me plenty happy.

 

[against all odds]

What would you like to know more of? The engine? Or the exhaust? If it`s the exhaust then it takes some experimentation and there is a down side to it. The biggest issue to performance six builds is cost, they cost more than a small block to build p............... considerably cheaper.

i'll get back to you on this...maybe.


But for now, to continue the discussion, do v-6's have any advantages over 8's? We don't have to compare these two, but i would like to point out that chevy had a 262 v-8 AS WELL as the better known 262 v-6 (4.3) The v-8 was also 262 cubic inches.

GMC had a 305 v-6 and of course chevy has the hated 305.

 

[Valkyrie5.7]

i'll get back to you on this...maybe.


But for now, to continue the discussion, do v-6's have any advantages over 8's? We don't have to compare these two, but i would like to point out that chevy had a 262 v-8 AS WELL as the better known 262 v-6 (4.3) The v-8 was also 262 cubic inches.

GMC had a 305 v-6 and of course chevy has the hated 305.

It depends. In your first example I can I tell you that the v6 is going to be lighter and will probably have a lot more top end potential given the superior bore size allows less valve shrouding compared to the 262 v8.

In the second example, for a performance build I'd take the 305 v8 any day of the week. MUCH lighter overall, revs higher thanks to a lighter rotating assembly, cheaper/more common parts and I can get a roller block with a decent set of heads stock (for cheap) out of an old halfton.

More often than not the v6 is likely going to be lighter and better on gas - to a point. If you're building a small, light car with little space in the engine bay, a 6 cylinder engine can look appealing for those very reasons. Most modern v6's are OHC nowadays though, and a v6 is only going to save you space from the waterpump the bellhousing. A sbc wont be nearly as wide.

 

[erlomd]

couldn't agree more, this past weekend actually I got the opportunity to rent a V6 camaro and it was better than I could ever imagine! only thing missing was that grunt when you turn the key...other than that, it was a missile off the line and it did very well in the canyons of southern california...great gas milage too, I averaged 27mpg even with all the fuel stomping i did....very very impressive....but lets face it, no respectable car nut will buy an american V6 anything...so i guess its just over engineering for the automotive impaired...